Sub Bass Techniques

[Geey]

"I mean whatever works for you "

[jkardon1992]

there are actually a few things i do as far as making it BEEFY.

using massive, ill make it 2 osc, both full sign, but with the wave table SLIGHTLY right on the second one, ill make it maybe 3 voices and use the stereo widener thing. put a dimension expander on it, maybe a tad hardclipper, drop everything in the eq out but low end. maybe some reverb, make the attack KINDA longer to get rid of that clicky noise. then out of massive it put a sausage fattner on it, compress it, eq it, maybe some subtle reverb, a simple delay with bearly any dry wet and make the delay for each side like .2 ms so it just widens it up a bit. maybe make the mids quiter or side chain compress them so the sub punches through the mix a bit more as well. its really overkill in my book, but i have OCD.

[bassinine]

the only difference between the two techniques is starting with a sine wave vs starting with an 808 kick.

my understanding of creating a typical 808 sub bass stems from using a few cycles from the tail of an 808 kick.

seems like you're just saturating a "clean" sine wave, pitch bending the initial portion of the wave, and messing around with the envelope in order to replicate the tail of an 808 kick. I don't understand how that is easier or how you can even call that an 808 sub bass? Especially considering that replicating an 808 kick digitally is not an easy task - it has very distinct characteristics.

perhaps i misunderstood your approach?

i'm just making an 808 how 808's are made. it takes less time than sampling the tail, and you have infinitely more control over it. can follow the melody, can change the initial kick samples, can change the amount of pitch bend, etc - all without opening up more than just operator and turning a few dials.

[sine143]

there are actually a few things i do as far as making it BEEFY.

using massive, ill make it 2 osc, both full sign, but with the wave table SLIGHTLY right on the second one, ill make it maybe 3 voices and use the stereo widener thing. put a dimension expander on it, maybe a tad hardclipper, drop everything in the eq out but low end. maybe some reverb, make the attack KINDA longer to get rid of that clicky noise. then out of massive it put a sausage fattner on it, compress it, eq it, maybe some subtle reverb, a simple delay with bearly any dry wet and make the delay for each side like .2 ms so it just widens it up a bit. maybe make the mids quiter or side chain compress them so the sub punches through the mix a bit more as well. its really overkill in my book, but i have OCD.

why do you widen your sub bass? 9/10 its getting reproduced in mono. I'd say the only time it isnt is in headphones.

[mthrfnk]

there are actually a few things i do as far as making it BEEFY.

using massive, ill make it 2 osc, both full sign, but with the wave table SLIGHTLY right on the second one, ill make it maybe 3 voices and use the stereo widener thing. put a dimension expander on it, maybe a tad hardclipper, drop everything in the eq out but low end. maybe some reverb, make the attack KINDA longer to get rid of that clicky noise. then out of massive it put a sausage fattner on it, compress it, eq it, maybe some subtle reverb, a simple delay with bearly any dry wet and make the delay for each side like .2 ms so it just widens it up a bit. maybe make the mids quiter or side chain compress them so the sub punches through the mix a bit more as well. its really overkill in my book, but i have OCD.

Clipping, reverb, stereo widener & delay on sub bass? Way to fuck up a mix.

[Nibzz]

I use ganymed - EQ it low - choose a decent preset(with nice sub in) - get them notes down low and have fun with it (ganymed got a lot of stuff to fuck around with in it).

Use that to highlight, support or play root notes of the melody - whichever suits whichever track.

Thought someone might get some use out of it, ganymed is free, small and easy to use.

[Hoolio]

Sub should be clean with no effects. If you want a layer to move like the sub then copy the sub, change the octave up, and move the frequency peak up to mid range (cut the sub freqs with a HiPass filter). then start adding effects to that layer.
Also make sure you work in audio for your sub and not midi. create your sub samples in midi then bounce them down so you have the simple audio waveform. you can then cut the waveform perfect around your kicks to manage the low frequency headroom.

[Hoolio]

Most of you probably already know to do this but just thought id share with any beginners

This process will help keep your frequencies from peaking at the same time.

Make your sub and kick audio, then line up the two layers so you can visually see them together.

Take your sub waveform and cut the very beginning (split second). now take your kick and cut the tail just after where you cut the sub.
now bring up the fades on the clips and adjust the kick fade to fade out as the sub comes in.

You have to play around with the fades and make sure you cut the waveforms perfect otherwise you get pops.
If you have a long sub waveform, cut out along the sample where the kicks come in and follow the steps above. (but make sure your cuts align with the center of the waveform)

Now load up a spectrum analyzer on your master track and watch how the kick blasts in, then a split second later the sub blasts in. This give the effect that the kick and sub are fused together and cleans the mix right up.

You can do this with all audio clips at any frequency to clean your mix right up

Here's a video to help

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bosTyDSyhmA&sns=em

Hoolio

Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:11 pm

[lonewolf]

Good tip cheers mate...gonna try it out when i get home tonight

[Monosphere]

Sounds like a really tedious way of sidechaining. I guess I get what the guy in the video is saying but I don't know if this is really the best way of handling this situation. I don't know if this is a common problem but I never allow my Kick and my bass to take up every last bit of headroom in a track.

[Hoolio]

It is very tedious, but if you do it from the beginning, your mix will sound much more clean, leaving you room to fill up.

Side chaining changes the waveforms movement and transient therefore you change the sound.
Thats neither a good or bad thing. just different results.

[Aphile]

It is very tedious, but if you do it from the beginning, your mix will sound much more clean, leaving you room to fill up.

Side chaining changes the waveforms movement and transient therefore you change the sound.
Thats neither a good or bad thing. just different results.

This. his method uses the fades to control the attack and release of the sub and kick. Sidechaining will use the attack and release of the compressor as the main provider of transient information. As stated, this will just be different

[benjam]

Nice tip cheers for that and welcome to the forum

[mthrfnk]

Sidechaining doesn't have to use a compressor.

[Hoolio]

Sidechaining doesn't have to use a compressor.

I like to side chain the ableton gate.input the snare, Click the invert button and adjust the hold and release. Excellent for chaining the snare to the high ends.

[mthrfnk]

I like to sidechain EQ notches for snares/kicks

[Efrafa11]

Sounds like a really tedious way of sidechaining. I guess I get what the guy in the video is saying but I don't know if this is really the best way of handling this situation. I don't know if this is a common problem but I never allow my Kick and my bass to take up every last bit of headroom in a track.

Depends on the person, I think I remember hearing datsik perfers manually doing it this way instead of using a sidechain compressor.

[RandoRando]

nice tip, or you could just lengthen the delay start and attack on the sub

[Artie_Fufkin]

^That's a good one.

Also, you can try working with stuff that is a kick and sub combined. 808 style kicks for example. There's a preset for sylenth that does a 4/4 kick and bass thing. reminds me of a selena gomez song...

[skimpi]

this is totally not what music is about lol, who gives a fuck if the way the kick and sub react with each other is perfectly precise