Is anyone on here 'deeply' religious?

[Terpit]

I just feel that if someone believes that a body of text is gods word then its an insult to their religion to pick and choose what they follow and what they dont, who are they to challenge their god? he made the book for a reason right?

But, im just being argumentative and annoying for the sake of it coz im bored

[kidshuffle]

Those types of people are usually the ones who don't really take chruch in itself seriously though, more just the teachings themselves.

I guess it is kind of insulting to the religion

[Leave Blank]

Ok, got a lot to quote here so just gunna quote without naming.

I just feel that if someone believes that a body of text is gods word then its an insult to their religion to pick and choose what they follow and what they dont, who are they to challenge their god? he made the book for a reason right?

But, im just being argumentative and annoying for the sake of it coz im bored

I believe the Bible to be God's word. I agree, it would be insulting to pick and choose what I want to take from that book, let alone contradictory.

So you think that Christianity is the only valid religion then?

No, I believe that Christ is the only way to God the father. I think there are plenty of faith groups that have perfectly valid teachings etc however, I believe (weather you like it or not) Christianity is the only true path to God. I am not going to tell you why I believe this because these types of debates always end badly because two opposing world-views are never going to agree. Do not take my lack of response as a cop out, it isn't, If you really want to know why I believe what I do, I will gladly share that with you via pm not in a public dissing match.
That kinda turned into a rant there!

According to your definition, a muslim/buddhist/hindu/etc cannot be religious, since they are not trying to be more christ-like. Do you seriously believe that? Or do you not need to follow christ to be christ-like?

Erm, I believe that following Christ is the exact opposite of legalistic religion (which I would certainly label the vast majority of other faith groups as). So yeah, I don't think a muslim/buddhist/hindu/etc can be religious according to my Christian definition. I don't think I would be hardpressed to find a muslim/buddhist/hindu etc that who agreed with me on that one.

So it sounds to me like a legalist (?) follows a religion but gets to pick and choose which rules he/she follows, pretty convenient

indeed! I think the best example of legalism I can find that my perspective sits comfortably with is the example of the Pharisees who continually attacked Jesus with legalism.

Never understood why this is used against religious people. Surely it makes sense to "pick and choose" what you follow and believe, isn't that what rational thinking is all about? Would you guys really prefer it if all religious people strictly followed the Bible/Koran/Mahabharata/etc NO MATTER WHAT? The most religious people I've met (in my understanding of the term, i.e., love and respect for God/the universe/each other) tend to be the ones who have thought about it the most, neither dismissing or accepting anything offhand.

I pick and choose in the sense that I can tell when reading the bible what to take as distinctly literal and what to take as a different medium. Examples being something like the book of Job. It clearly isn't a literal story about a literal guy (look at it stylisticly to see that it approximates to something similar to a play although, it is almost a genre of it's own as has been discussed here: http://www.teleiosministries.com/pdfs/U ... of_job.pdf

http://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/Ted_Hil ... od-GTJ.pdf (page 14 onwards)

http://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/Ted_Hil ... ob-WTJ.pdf

http://www.rbsp.info/rbs/RbS/JOB/sem00.html

So I pick and choose in that sense however, I still retain that the bible IS God's word.
I do however, think it is damaging to pick and choose your doctrines based on personal preference etc.
To deny that God exists in triune (for example) would be to pick and choose a step too far and separate yourself from being a Christian (Eg. Mormonism).

[SCope13]

So if you believe it's insulting to pick and choose does that mean you don't cut your hair, dont eat shellfish and completely shun any woman who happens to be on her period?

[magma]

Just to divert for a second, sorry...

What makes you believe the Bible is God's word?

I get that Muslims believe that about the Qu'ran because it was directly dictated to Mohammed and Mormons about Joseph Smith's writings, but the Bible is fairly openly an anthology of people's experiences with God written by the people who had the experiences over the course of several centuries - most have been Sainted since, but they're definitely still humans... purely out of interest, because I've missed something, what makes you think it's actually God's word rather than Man's words about God? Is it that the writers were all directly channelling the Spirit whilst writing?

[scspkr99]

So you think that Christianity is the only valid religion then?

No, I believe that Christ is the only way to God the father. I think there are plenty of faith groups that have perfectly valid teachings etc however, I believe (weather you like it or not) Christianity is the only true path to God. I am not going to tell you why I believe this because these types of debates always end badly because two opposing world-views are never going to agree. Do not take my lack of response as a cop out, it isn't, If you really want to know why I believe what I do, I will gladly share that with you via pm not in a public dissing match.
That kinda turned into a rant there!

I've defended my own view of God often enough to not want to get into a dissing match with anyone.

My only concern was that you were defining religious in a specifically biblical sense which seems to rule out those religions that don't follow the bible from being religious. It's more the definition of religious that I have the issue with not your own faith. I get that these may cross over though.

[kidshuffle]

According to your definition, a muslim/buddhist/hindu/etc cannot be religious, since they are not trying to be more christ-like. Do you seriously believe that? Or do you not need to follow christ to be christ-like?

Erm, I believe that following Christ is the exact opposite of legalistic religion (which I would certainly label the vast majority of other faith groups as). So yeah, I don't think a muslim/buddhist/hindu/etc can be religious according to my Christian definition. I don't think I would be hardpressed to find a muslim/buddhist/hindu etc that who agreed with me on that one.

Any religion can be legalistic; christianity probably being the worst strain of all that have been mentioned. Just because you go to Christmas Mass doesn't make you a full fledged christian (not aimed at you btw). How would you say other religions are more legalistic? Most other religions don't even really believe in free agency or deviation. Legalism was also invented to be used in a christian context, so how is it the opposite of a legalistic religion, unless of course, you're a staunch Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox member?


What separates a 'faith group' from a 'religion' then? Please ignore this question if you're answer is strictly "belief in jesus".

[kidshuffle]

To deny that God exists in triune (for example) would be to pick and choose a step too far and separate yourself from being a Christian (Eg. Mormonism).

How are Mormons not christian, considering their actual title is "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints"? They obviously follow the word of christ. Even if you try to use the Book of Mormon as an argument, they still see the bible as truth.

[garethom]

Is god real then or what?

[Leave Blank]

Just to divert for a second, sorry...

What makes you believe the Bible is God's word?

I get that Muslims believe that about the Qu'ran because it was directly dictated to Mohammed and Mormons about Joseph Smith's writings, but the Bible is fairly openly an anthology of people's experiences with God written by the people who had the experiences over the course of several centuries - most have been Sainted since, but they're definitely still humans... purely out of interest, because I've missed something, what makes you think it's actually God's word rather than Man's words about God? Is it that the writers were all directly channelling the Spirit whilst writing?

As illogical as it may or may not seem, I believe so yes. Of course I acknowledge that the bible was penned by humans however, it is divinely inspired and echoes the voice of God's spirit. I shall not go into it any more in this thread, if you wanna know more pm me.

[Leave Blank]

So you think that Christianity is the only valid religion then?

No, I believe that Christ is the only way to God the father. I think there are plenty of faith groups that have perfectly valid teachings etc however, I believe (weather you like it or not) Christianity is the only true path to God. I am not going to tell you why I believe this because these types of debates always end badly because two opposing world-views are never going to agree. Do not take my lack of response as a cop out, it isn't, If you really want to know why I believe what I do, I will gladly share that with you via pm not in a public dissing match.
That kinda turned into a rant there!

I've defended my own view of God often enough to not want to get into a dissing match with anyone.

My only concern was that you were defining religious in a specifically biblical sense which seems to rule out those religions that don't follow the bible from being religious. It's more the definition of religious that I have the issue with not your own faith. I get that these may cross over though.

They cross over for me. I cannot define it outside of my own faith because my faith forms the core of my world view.

[Leave Blank]

[quote="kidshuffle]
Any religion can be legalistic; christianity probably being the worst strain of all that have been mentioned. Just because you go to Christmas Mass doesn't make you a full fledged christian (not aimed at you btw). How would you say other religions are more legalistic? Most other religions don't even really believe in free agency or deviation. Legalism was also invented to be used in a christian context, so how is it the opposite of a legalistic religion, unless of course, you're a staunch Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox member?


What separates a 'faith group' from a 'religion' then? Please ignore this question if you're answer is strictly "belief in jesus".[/quote]

I watched a show the other day on the bbc about rich muslim princes comming over to the uk to flaunt their cash on expensive cars.drugs/girls/booze etc because their country (under a muslim ideology) forbade that kind of thing. These guys are clearly legalistic muslims. It isn't about their deity it is purely about abiding to specific laws. Despite of their behaviours they still called themselves muslims.

Jewish people are similar. Judaism and islam are both what I would call orthopractic religions and it is very evidenced in their rituals and practices. Being orthopractic is, by definition, being legalistic.

Legalism was a term used to define certain characteristics of different types of people within the bible. This does not mean that it was the example Christians should follow (see the Pauline letters for evidence of this).

Well, I think a faith group is a group who aim to emulate (as closely as possible) their deity. I try to be like Christ. It isn't that I am Christ nor will I ever be Christlike but I try. This is not out of a desire to please God (that would be legalistic) but out of gratitude and worship for what God did for me in Christ.

[Leave Blank]

To deny that God exists in triune (for example) would be to pick and choose a step too far and separate yourself from being a Christian (Eg. Mormonism).

How are Mormons not christian, considering their actual title is "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints"? They obviously follow the word of christ. Even if you try to use the Book of Mormon as an argument, they still see the bible as truth.

Mormanism is not Christianity for many reasons.
To clarify I will refer you to the evangelical alliance's statement of faith: http://www.eauk.org/connect/about-us/basis-of-faith.cfm
This, for me, comes close to expressing what I believe as a Christian and what I feel Christianity is.
In comparison let me offer you some Mormon doctrine from Mormon writers....

Book of Mormon
The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, (History of the Church, vol. 4, p. 461.)
Devil, the
The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 192.)
Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.)
God
God used to be a man on another planet (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333).
"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans..." (D&C 130:22).
God, becoming a god
After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345-347, 354).
"Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them," (DC 132:20).
God, many gods
There are many gods (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163).
"And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light," (Book of Abraham 4:3).
God, mother goddess
There is a mother god (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443).
God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children (Mormon Doctrine, p. 516).
God, Trinity
The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).
Heaven
There are three levels of heaven: telestial, terrestrial, and celestial (Mormon Doctrine, p. 348).
Holy Ghost, the
The Holy Ghost is a male personage (A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, Le Grand Richards, Salt Lake City, 1956, p. 118; Journal of Discources, vol. 5, p. 179).
Jesus
"Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).
"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115).
"Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh ..." (First Presidency and Council of the Twelve, 1916, God the Father, compiled by Gordon Allred, p. 150).
Joseph Smith
If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation [the context is the full gospel including exaltation to Godhood] outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon Doctrine, p. 670).
Pre-existence
We were first begotten as spirit children in heaven and then born naturally on earth (Journal of Discourse, vol. 4, p. 218).
The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus (Mormon Doctrine, p. 129).
The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 192).
Salvation
"One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation," (Miracle of Forgiveness, by Spencer W. Kimball, p. 206).
A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the Father and Satan offered a plan to the father but Jesus' plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to "deny men their agency and to dethrone god," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 193; Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. .
Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, 1856, p. 247).
Good works are necessary for salvation (Articles of Faith, p. 92).
There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 188).
"The first effect [of the atonement] is to secure to all mankind alike, exemption from the penalty of the fall, thus providing a plan of General Salvation. The second effect is to open a way for Individual Salvation whereby mankind may secure remission of personal sins (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 78-79).
"As these sins are the result of individual acts it is just that forgiveness for them should be conditioned on individual compliance with prescribed requirements -- 'obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel,'" (Articles of Faith, p. 79).
"This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts," (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697).
"We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do," (2 Nephi 25:23).
Trinity, the
The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

[Terpit]

Was Jesus the coolest dude ever then?

[lovelydivot]

I was flipping through the TV one day..
and caught this lady - I don't really know what she was - but she was wearing the collar...
and she was from university - a religious scholar...
and she was giving a sermon in the Greek Orthodox style...

and it was all about the church being a pillar of light in the darkness...

and it was beautiful poetic language - about seeking salvation in the darkness


I liked it - It wasn't all just dogma.

[jayladders]

my religious belief, which ive never attempted to explain before, is of the self. i believe in personal abilities, self sacrifice and altruism, simply because thats how i choose to live my life. i have strong morals and dont break my own rules, and im extremely judgemental of others. im highly aware of others perception of me and even more aware of the way they live their lives according to my own rules; i worry about people; i find myself uncontrollably stepping in to try and do something. my family and one of my friends always, always say that my biggest problem is that i try to help people when i should let people sort things out themselves. but still, even after ive contracted some disorder that makes me feel like life is a video game, after the shit people throw at me to try and upset and hurt me, i still try and help people if i feel they need it, and thats something i cant control

my belief is that we ourselves are the highest form of intelligence on our planet. we control others, we choose whether others live or die, we create, we destroy, we reproduce, we sterilise. if ever there was a god, it is us. axiomatic

my view on global religion (christianity, islam, buddhism, spaghetti monsterism) which im expecting to get bashed and flamed for is that its outlived its purpose. "if one man has an invisible friend, hes insane and strange. if many people have the same invisible friend, its accepted and gone along with". i believe in science, logic and the laws of the universe over an all powerful yet completely dormant figure. it saddens me because my parents are religious and believe when they die theyll go to paradise, but i simply cannot understand that view. i do not understand how people cant see that we are animals, just as dogs or sharks or bears, and we will all decompose and feed the earth upon death. do dogs and sharks go to heaven? because theyre animals, just like us, they just evolved a different way.

et cetera.

[butter_man]

The foundations for our society are deeply entrenched in religion. Would science have been as prolyphic without the discipline of the church?

[nomi]

I see this - native american turtle rattle - and I'm like - yeah - that is special.

...to me at least.

Revere nature and it will show you things.

gotta get me one of these

[jayladders]

The foundations for our society are deeply entrenched in religion. Would science have been as prolyphic without the discipline of the church?

its outlived its purpose

[kidshuffle]

To deny that God exists in triune (for example) would be to pick and choose a step too far and separate yourself from being a Christian (Eg. Mormonism).

How are Mormons not christian, considering their actual title is "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints"? They obviously follow the word of christ. Even if you try to use the Book of Mormon as an argument, they still see the bible as truth.

Mormanism is not Christianity for many reasons.
To clarify I will refer you to the evangelical alliance's statement of faith: http://www.eauk.org/connect/about-us/basis-of-faith.cfm
This, for me, comes close to expressing what I believe as a Christian and what I feel Christianity is.
In comparison let me offer you some Mormon doctrine from Mormon writers....

Book of Mormon
The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, (History of the Church, vol. 4, p. 461.)
Devil, the
The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 192.)
Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.)
God
God used to be a man on another planet (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333).
"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans..." (D&C 130:22).
God, becoming a god
After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345-347, 354).
"Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them," (DC 132:20).
God, many gods
There are many gods (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163).
"And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light," (Book of Abraham 4:3).
God, mother goddess
There is a mother god (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443).
God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children (Mormon Doctrine, p. 516).
God, Trinity
The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).
Heaven
There are three levels of heaven: telestial, terrestrial, and celestial (Mormon Doctrine, p. 348).
Holy Ghost, the
The Holy Ghost is a male personage (A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, Le Grand Richards, Salt Lake City, 1956, p. 118; Journal of Discources, vol. 5, p. 179).
Jesus
"Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).
"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115).
"Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh ..." (First Presidency and Council of the Twelve, 1916, God the Father, compiled by Gordon Allred, p. 150).
Joseph Smith
If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation [the context is the full gospel including exaltation to Godhood] outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon Doctrine, p. 670).
Pre-existence
We were first begotten as spirit children in heaven and then born naturally on earth (Journal of Discourse, vol. 4, p. 218).
The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus (Mormon Doctrine, p. 129).
The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 192).
Salvation
"One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation," (Miracle of Forgiveness, by Spencer W. Kimball, p. 206).
A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the Father and Satan offered a plan to the father but Jesus' plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to "deny men their agency and to dethrone god," (Mormon Doctrine, p. 193; Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. .
Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, 1856, p. 247).
Good works are necessary for salvation (Articles of Faith, p. 92).
There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 188).
"The first effect [of the atonement] is to secure to all mankind alike, exemption from the penalty of the fall, thus providing a plan of General Salvation. The second effect is to open a way for Individual Salvation whereby mankind may secure remission of personal sins (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 78-79).
"As these sins are the result of individual acts it is just that forgiveness for them should be conditioned on individual compliance with prescribed requirements -- 'obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel,'" (Articles of Faith, p. 79).
"This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts," (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697).
"We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do," (2 Nephi 25:23).
Trinity, the
The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

I don't even think I need to comment on this tbh. We'll just leave it there.

Whats your opinion on Judaism then, since without that, you wouldn't have Christianity? Are they no longer religious, since they didn't follow christ, even though they laid the foundation down for him?