Narrowing your sub bass range ...imaging methods?

[jetpackjotto]

Hey all, I've got some questions about how you treat the stereo image of your mixes, esp the lower end (around 200hz and less.)

I'm referring to the common technique of centering (or making mono) most frequencies as you go below 200hz...

Now, I've tried centering the "sub range" on all my sounds individually in a project,

as WELL as the other method: making mono just the final mix's sub range.

Both methods seemed to not accomplish my goal. What's your guys' method(s) for making a tight (centered and not out of phase)/mono, and non-muddy and very distinct low end?

Also, what FX methods do you use? right now i'm using frequency splitting to make the low end mono, but I know you can also use mid/side processing to hi-pass the side channels, leaving only sub frequencies down the middle (mid)

At one point, i was even hard hi-passing all sounds that were not kick or sub...but i found this to be WAYY more thinning to the sub-range than just making every sound more narrowed individually.

This problem arose because, when you play most sounds by themselves, including synth presets, a good amount of sub accounts for its beefiness, but then it muds everything up summed altogether.... !!! even if everything has mono sub range! ugh.

So what methods work best without making your mix sound thin, frequency wise?


TL;DR

1.) do you center / make mono the sub bass range on all sounds individually, or on the master mix only?

2.) what's the difference between using freq splitting vs. mid/side to make bass mono

3.) what do you do about that low end rumble on sounds which are not your kick or sub bass? do you cut them out completely, or let them pass through and mix with the low end of your final mix? When I solo the low end range on my master output, should i also hear the rumble from other instruments or STRICTLY sub/kick drum?

[Cubicle]

1) I do both. I mono my kick and sub in the mix.
After my mix is done I go through a mild master and use the Brainworx Control to make everything mono under 110Hz. (Don't ask me why it's 110, it's a habit, I rarely go higher than that)

2) Not really sure what you mean but if you mean actually freq splitting to make your low freq's mono I think you're over complicating things.

3) You should hear only your sub and kick if your mix is SPOT FUCKING ON. And even then, you will still hear bits of other instruments.
It depends on the kind of fx you're using aswel. E.g. if I use the Logic build in multi-compressor and solo out my low I hear a lot of shit that shouldn't be there but if I use the waves one I get a better idea of what should and what shouldn't be there.

Hope this helped you out a bit man.

[jetpackjotto]

Hope this helped you out a bit man.

Very helpful, actually, thanks. It shows me that my methods aren't too far off from most others.

Also, I agree that if you solo your final mix in the low end and hear just your kick/sub, you're spot on! It should sound like when you're standing outside the club, and all you hear is the thump of the kick drum and the rumble of the offbeat bass.

[NinjaEdit]

Highpass the mid, and highpass the side further. Try listening to just the mid when mixing down (ie mono-compatibility).

[Dahneboy]

lower the frequencies more its on mono , higher the frequencies more on stereo . dodge and fuski talks about it in one of their videos

[Dahneboy]

but keep the sub completely on mono

[mthrfnk]

Mono sub, mono kick, "center" low end on the master using Ozone's Imager. Sometimes use M/S EQ to remove >150Hz from the side channel.

[syrup]

i use mono sine for sub, mono samples for kicks. voila

[jetpackjotto]

i use mono sine for sub, mono samples for kicks. voila

k, but what about that synth sound you load up that is naturally full of low end (<200hz)...do you cut that out? make it mono? leave it alone?

what i'm saying basically is that there are tons of other sounds besides the kick/sub in any given mix that have sub frequencies. what do?

[mthrfnk]

i use mono sine for sub, mono samples for kicks. voila

k, but what about that synth sound you load up that is naturally full of low end (<200hz)...do you cut that out? make it mono? leave it alone?

what i'm saying basically is that there are tons of other sounds besides the kick/sub in any given mix that have sub frequencies. what do?

What other stuff has sub frequencies that you need? For me it's nothing - that's why I have a dedicated sub. I cut all my buss channels - I cut my synths pretty high, I leave some mid/low end in my orchestra buss since removing the low end on stuff like cellos makes them sound shit - but in general they'll be centered in the mix anyway, I normally cut my drums around 50Hz - my kicks are mono'd anyway, I cut my midrange buss to sit around my sub. So overall everything should have it's place in the mix.

[SaveMidnight]

Idk about anyone else, but I figured that nothing needed to be below 50 hz other than the sub, and that gets cut around 25-30 for headroom. Nothing below 20-30, not much (if anything) above 17500hz. Izotope's imager is really good for this, and sometimes I listen to professional tracks and use the vectorscope and see what other tracks do.

[syrup]

i use mono sine for sub, mono samples for kicks. voila

k, but what about that synth sound you load up that is naturally full of low end (<200hz)...do you cut that out? make it mono? leave it alone?

what i'm saying basically is that there are tons of other sounds besides the kick/sub in any given mix that have sub frequencies. what do?

highpass and rarely a stereo imager (whatever it's called) i set the cutoff point between low and high at say 200-230hz and go mono from there. i did that like once or twice, usually i just highpass and that's it

[mromgwtf]

iZotope Stereo Imaging

[Sharmaji]

sub mono

kick (maybe) mono

low pass your whole mix and see what's going on under 100hz when everything's playing together. cut out what doesn't need to be there.