Mixdown and Sidechaining question

[Nevs]

I realized today that I have only been using sidechaining for ducking everything when the kick hits, but could I use sidechaining to get something to fit properly in the mix? I've never thought to do this, and I wanted to try it out later. For example, taking a lead and sidechaining it to a pad so that when the lead comes in the pads will be a bit quieter, but when the lead isn't playing, the pads will stand out more. I've been reading the production bible but didn't really see anything about sidechaining in the mixdown section (yet... I'm still reading the whole bible currently ). The lead and pad I am using for my recent tune sort of muddy each other up, but I like the way they both sound, I just can't seem to get them to sit correctly together. So I can't figure out how to make them fit properly .

So does anybody do this? could you share some advice on using a technique like this to help get instruments to fit properly in the mix?

Also, I'm pretty new to production, so I apologize for the noob questions

[PillowFight]

That's actually not a bad idea. Did you try it? Definitely an interesting take on side chaining

[outdropt]

This is actually a decent question don't apologize.

There are a few ways to go about making room for your mids.

You can sidechain an EQ cut so you only loose the FQ you want to loose, when they need to be out of the way. Some DAW's have this routing capability.

A side chain compressor would turn the volume down of the overall sound. If that's the effect your going for, i'm sure it would sound decent in context.

You can also EQ back some points that are not prominent for the sound, and boost others.. Kind of like puzzle piecing the sounds together, maybe pan a little left with one sound, a little right with the other.

[mthrfnk]

I wouldn't sidechain them, I'd manually ride the volume faders and record that, so for example control the pad to be quieter at certain bits where you want the synth to be loudest. Same goes for any EQ manipulation.

Although it might be best first to work out why they don't sit right... clashing notes, unharmonic stuff, build up of noise etc. and concentrate on fixing that first. I sometimes have trouble layering pads because they can be inherently "technically out of tune" so when layering straight up melodies on top it can sound a bit odd.

It's not a dumb question, and I sidechain lots of stuff within my tracks. But for this I'd do it manually with volume and/or EQ manipulation.

It's done in a lot of professional music; for example in a tune with vocals and guitar backing the guitar may be ducked slightly when the vocals kick in to make them seem more impactful - although you don't want it to be overtly obvious. Being too heavy handed might end up in an actual total volume drop in that section of the track and would be jarring (not seamless) to listen to imo.

A plugin I've been looking at (stripbus) actually has a soft ducking feature where you can link tracks to duck softly when other tracks kick in - I've yet to try it out but in theory I'm hoping it might help get cleaner mixes.

[Augment]

I do something similar sometimes where I will have a fruity peak controller on f ex my Snare insert, so each time the snare hits, certain frequencies will duck f ex in some midrange stuff that is playing at the same time. I heard something about a sidechain eq, that ducks freqs in on sound that the input sound is playing at. (if that makes sense) Would love this plugin, but haven't seen one like it yet

[heliosending]

I always sidechain sounds that are in the same frequency range. I've noticed that when they are, they tend to get in each others way, so to speak. So I pick something with priority and sidechain everything else to it. For example: sub-bass to kick and snare, sub-bass to bass, noise to synth, noise to percussion etc. with different levels of compression of course. I tend to sidechain everything to the kick, because the kick kind of covers almost the entire frequency range. If I'm doing trance, I sidechain noise sweeps to a hidden 4/4 kick, so that it'll always sound the same, despite what I might do with the audible kick, like for example pause it or autofilter it. So I say yeah, sidechaining pads to lead is what I'd do. The way I see it it comes down to which sounds you want to kind of pop out, and which get out of the way and make room for the former. In my opinion extensive and deliberate sidechaining is the key to a nice and clean overall mixdown, and at the end, a nice and loud enough master.

[Nevs]

This is actually a decent question don't apologize.

There are a few ways to go about making room for your mids.

You can sidechain an EQ cut so you only loose the FQ you want to loose, when they need to be out of the way. Some DAW's have this routing capability.

A side chain compressor would turn the volume down of the overall sound. If that's the effect your going for, i'm sure it would sound decent in context.

You can also EQ back some points that are not prominent for the sound, and boost others.. Kind of like puzzle piecing the sounds together, maybe pan a little left with one sound, a little right with the other.

Do you know of any way I can pull this off in FL Studio? The only thing I have used for sidechaining so far is the fruity limiter, which has a built in compressor/sidechain compressor. I can use this for ducking some instruments behind others, but I can't think of a way to do this to an EQ band in the program. I only know how to automate it. Maybe someone can help me out?

I do something similar sometimes where I will have a fruity peak controller on f ex my Snare insert, so each time the snare hits, certain frequencies will duck f ex in some midrange stuff that is playing at the same time. I heard something about a sidechain eq, that ducks freqs in on sound that the input sound is playing at. (if that makes sense) Would love this plugin, but haven't seen one like it yet

Me too, that sounds pretty amazing. Sounds a lot like doing an EQ sidechain, which I still want to know more about!

I wouldn't sidechain them, I'd manually ride the volume faders and record that, so for example control the pad to be quieter at certain bits where you want the synth to be loudest. Same goes for any EQ manipulation.

Although it might be best first to work out why they don't sit right... clashing notes, unharmonic stuff, build up of noise etc. and concentrate on fixing that first. I sometimes have trouble layering pads because they can be inherently "technically out of tune" so when layering straight up melodies on top it can sound a bit odd.

It's not a dumb question, and I sidechain lots of stuff within my tracks. But for this I'd do it manually with volume and/or EQ manipulation.

It's done in a lot of professional music; for example in a tune with vocals and guitar backing the guitar may be ducked slightly when the vocals kick in to make them seem more impactful - although you don't want it to be overtly obvious. Being too heavy handed might end up in an actual total volume drop in that section of the track and would be jarring (not seamless) to listen to imo.

A plugin I've been looking at (stripbus) actually has a soft ducking feature where you can link tracks to duck softly when other tracks kick in - I've yet to try it out but in theory I'm hoping it might help get cleaner mixes.

I really need to stop being so nervous about posting some stuff so I can get some real help on my mixes lol, I would love to know why my elements don't seem to sit right, but I image that probably has something to do with not having decent monitors (M-Audio AV40), and not having enough experience with mixing my elements together. I've mostly been so focused on learning my DAW and my synths (Massive and FM8 currently) over the last few months.

Also, why wouldn't side-chaining the vocals to that guitar have the same effect as just manually moving the fader down a little bit? I feel like it would be more 'organic" so to speak, if I let the side-chaining do that for me, but with very slight compression. That way there would be no mistaking when to drop that volume down, since I would have to manually do that with automation. It just seems easier I guess. Just curious what your take on it is!

This is actually a decent question don't apologize.

There are a few ways to go about making room for your mids.

You can sidechain an EQ cut so you only loose the FQ you want to loose, when they need to be out of the way. Some DAW's have this routing capability.

A side chain compressor would turn the volume down of the overall sound. If that's the effect your going for, i'm sure it would sound decent in context.

You can also EQ back some points that are not prominent for the sound, and boost others.. Kind of like puzzle piecing the sounds together, maybe pan a little left with one sound, a little right with the other.

There's that side-chained EQ again, definitely need to figure out how to do this within FL Studio, I'm sure there must be a way.

I haven't messed with panning hardly at all. Any production tips on that?

Going to go play around with it some right now. Thanks for the great replies!

[mthrfnk]

To sidechain EQ, pop a Peak Controller on say your kick, then EQ on a synth. Right click on one of the bands and link to controller > Peak Controller. Then play with the settings till the EQ duck sounds right, you need to unclick "mute" on Peak Controller first

Why would using a compressor be "more organic"? Personally I don't use compressors or limiters to sidechain, I do everything through volume automation because you have so much more control.

[outdropt]

Not sure how to pull that off in FL, There are plugins that could help you out but i dont know of any off the top of my head/

Intro's you can have the pads move around from left to right to create movement.

If two synths are sitting in the same area you can pan one slightly left and the other slightly right to get them to fit together.
If you want to get a little more advanced and have an EQ that lets you EQ L/R or M/S you can tie two sounds together by EQ boosting and cutting certain FQ's of the stereo image.

If you have an auto pan you can modulate from left to right, creates a chorus like effect at higher speeds, at slower speeds it can get your synth line bouncing around.

To sidechain EQ, pop a Peak Controller on say your kick, then EQ on a synth. Right click on one of the bands and link to controller > Peak Controller. Then play with the settings till the EQ duck sounds right, you need to unclick "mute" on Peak Controller first

Why would using a compressor be "more organic"? Personally I don't use compressors or limiters to sidechain, I do everything through volume automation because you have so much more control.

Volume automation is so tedious though, and every time you progress through the song you have to adjust it.

If you setup a compressor correctly it can do everything you need it to, although you could ride the volume for effect.

[mthrfnk]

Volume automation is so tedious though, and every time you progress through the song you have to adjust it.

If you setup a compressor correctly it can do everything you need it to, although you could ride the volume for effect.

It's really not that tedious if you do it correctly. Especially for drums, you only have to draw the automation for a single hit and you can copy/paste it along the track, then you only have to edit one small automation clip and the rest follow (at least they do in FL).

Idk, each to their own I guess, I used to use FL's Limiter in comp mode to sidechain but I've given up that in favour of proper volume automation. To me I've found I can have better and cleaner mixes by controlling everything much more precisely, it also allows for easy variation (e.g. every 4th kick) because you can just draw new automation clip. For what it's worth I know I'm not alone in this either.

Also Peak Controller in FL will do what the OP wants, PC on one synth - then a ducking contoller (sidechain comp, EQ, volume control... whatever) on the pad linked to the PC control.

[outdropt]

Volume automation is so tedious though, and every time you progress through the song you have to adjust it.

If you setup a compressor correctly it can do everything you need it to, although you could ride the volume for effect.

It's really not that tedious if you do it correctly. Especially for drums, you only have to draw the automation for a single hit and you can copy/paste it along the track, then you only have to edit one small automation clip and the rest follow (at least they do in FL).

Idk, each to their own I guess, I used to use FL's Limiter in comp mode to sidechain but I've given up that in favour of proper volume automation. To me I've found I can have better and cleaner mixes by controlling everything much more precisely, it also allows for easy variation (e.g. every 4th kick) because you can just draw new automation clip. For what it's worth I know I'm not alone in this either.

Also Peak Controller in FL will do what the OP wants, PC on one synth - then a ducking contoller (sidechain comp, EQ, volume control... whatever) on the pad linked to the PC control.

I guess it doesn't limit you to an attack decay knob. You can draw more interesting curves. Ill give it a shot on a new track.