Medicinal Drugs: Is Psychedelic Therapy the Future?

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Medicinal Drugs: Is Psychedelic Therapy the Future?

Post by d-T-r » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:50 pm

http://thebackbencher.co.uk/is-psychede ... he-future/

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"In the future, it may be increasingly common for doctors and therapists to efficiently use psychedelic-assisted therapy to benefit their patients.

Dr. Robin Carhart-Harris is a neuropsychopharmacologist (or a ‘scientist’ if you want to be more general) who works at Imperial College London. In the past he worked under David Nutt, the former chairman of the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs. Nutt was fired for being a bit nutty (in the eyes of the government anyway) by claiming that ecstasy and magic mushrooms were less harmful than horse-riding and alcohol. To anyone who watched the two-part programme Drugs Live on Channel 4, Carhart-Harris was one of the scientists involved in administering MDMA, in a clinical setting, to a priest and Keith Allen. The programme helped to promote the evidence that MDMA could be useful in helping PTSD sufferers face their trauma with an anxiety-free attitude, eventually being able to overcome it.

In the near future Cahart-Harris will be carrying out two new exciting experimental studies. One is with psilocybin, the psychoactive ingredient in magic mushrooms; the second is on LSD. Both will make use of brain imaging techniques. The LSD study will be ground-breaking because we will be able to see which different brain regions are affected under the influence of the drug, where blood flow and activity is most prominent, for example."


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Lots of good stuff happening with psychedelics in the scientific world lately. Still many obstacles, but thankfully there has already been enough posive results to jusitify further research.

For those in the U.s, you may be interested in this;

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http://www.maps.org/conference/3-day-conference/
At Psychedelic Science 2013, over 100 of the world's leading researchers from 13 countries will present recent findings on the benefits and risks of LSD, psilocybin, MDMA, ayahuasca, ibogaine, 2C-B, ketamine, marijuana, and more, over three days of conference presentations, and two days of pre- and post-conference workshops.
And for The U.k people,

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http://breakingconvention.co.uk/
Breaking Convention is a biennial conference on psychedelic consciousness, the only one of its kind operating in Britain, convened by a non-profit organization of the same name. Breaking Convention 2013 will be held at the University of Greenwich on July 12-14 and will feature ten symposia of invited speakers and a track dedicated to talks from submitted abstracts, as well as galleries, exhibitions, films and evening entertainments.

What do other ninjas think about psychedelics as a potential route for therapy? It seems like we are going full circle and "rediscovering" the techniques and methods shamans and medicine men and women have been using as far back as we know. It's good that the stigma is being addressed and these psychotropic substances are being recognized for their medicinal purposes as apposed to the culturally imposed propaganda we hear about them.

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Re: Medicinal Drugs: Is Psychedelic Therapy the Future?

Post by Sonika » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:28 pm

I mean, it seems like if the therapist really knows what they're doing it could be incredibly effective
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Re: Medicinal Drugs: Is Psychedelic Therapy the Future?

Post by DRTY » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:33 pm

I don't know a lot about it, but after reading David Nutt's book it seems very silly how difficult it is for research to be done with them

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Re: Medicinal Drugs: Is Psychedelic Therapy the Future?

Post by Sonika » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:37 pm

I saw a documentary where a woman came to terms with her terminal cancer after LSD therapy

and another where a woman got over her grief for her sister who died in a car crash with MDMA therapy
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Re: Medicinal Drugs: Is Psychedelic Therapy the Future?

Post by DRTY » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:50 pm

Sonika wrote:
and another where a woman got over her grief for her sister who died in a car crash with MDMA therapy
Did that last when she came down though :lol:

I personally can't really see MDMA being a good drug for depression/grief. LSD is an interesting one though

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Re: Medicinal Drugs: Is Psychedelic Therapy the Future?

Post by d-T-r » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:56 pm

good book then DRTY?

Will be watching this at some point over the next few days .

The Jungle prescription is similar too, focusing on addiction treatment.DR Gabor mate does a lot of good stuff with that but Health Canada made him stop using ayauascha to treat people with strong addictions as a treatment even though he had some very successful results.

(another reminder Sonika ,wait till your older before you do any of the things in this thread :4: ....Learn to achieve similar states in the mean time without anything and you'll benefit much more from being able to get in to natural altered states of conciousness and not always relying on anything outside of yourself)
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Re: Medicinal Drugs: Is Psychedelic Therapy the Future?

Post by willis » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:03 pm

The future? It was not uncommon in the 1960's as a way of supporting psychoanalysis. At the time it was very difficult to quantify results but a number of practitioners claimed to achieved results in single sessions that would have otherwise taken months. Unfortunately this is going nowhere on a large scale for a long long time.

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Re: Medicinal Drugs: Is Psychedelic Therapy the Future?

Post by Sexual_Chocolate » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:08 pm

there are therapists who use mdma now for recovery from PTSD.

obviously its illegal, but its a lot fuck-load safer than poppin' pills at a rave.
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Re: Medicinal Drugs: Is Psychedelic Therapy the Future?

Post by Muncey » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:25 pm

Sonika wrote:I saw a documentary where a woman came to terms with her terminal cancer after LSD therapy

and another where a woman got over her grief for her sister who died in a car crash with MDMA therapy
Thats stupid. It may have helped them but it certainly wasn't the reason they came to terms/got over grief. Its quite well documented the stages of grief/accepting terminal illness.. saying drugs were the reason for it implies they wouldn't have achieved it without the drugs.

But yeah the way it can help aid those things are interesting, probably small doses though.. I've never had LSD but apparently it has like a 3/4 day hangover/comedown... that can't be nice. Same with mandy, you can feel pretty 'blue' to say the least the day after and feel generally deflated depending how much you've done.. I can't imagine thats good for grief.

So I hope theres some balance, with all the people who it does help I'd like to see if there are any where it actually made it worse.. because statistically there will be some.. whether they choose to document that or not is a different matter.

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Re: Medicinal Drugs: Is Psychedelic Therapy the Future?

Post by DRTY » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:43 pm

d-T-r wrote:good book then DRTY?
yeah really good read... highly recommend

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Re: Medicinal Drugs: Is Psychedelic Therapy the Future?

Post by d-T-r » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:47 am

Muncey wrote:
Sonika wrote:I saw a documentary where a woman came to terms with her terminal cancer after LSD therapy

and another where a woman got over her grief for her sister who died in a car crash with MDMA therapy
Thats stupid. It may have helped them but it certainly wasn't the reason they came to terms/got over grief. Its quite well documented the stages of grief/accepting terminal illness.. saying drugs were the reason for it implies they wouldn't have achieved it without the drugs.

But yeah the way it can help aid those things are interesting, probably small doses though.. I've never had LSD but apparently it has like a 3/4 day hangover/comedown... that can't be nice. Same with mandy, you can feel pretty 'blue' to say the least the day after and feel generally deflated depending how much you've done.. I can't imagine thats good for grief.

So I hope theres some balance, with all the people who it does help I'd like to see if there are any where it actually made it worse.. because statistically there will be some.. whether they choose to document that or not is a different matter.



Check out the above conferences for an idea of some of the topics realated to mdma assisted psychotherapy.

also, who ever told you that you get a 3/4 day hangover from lsd is either lying, had bad acid, or is just unhealthy.

If anything you get a nice 5 hour afterglow and a long sleep ;)

As for feeling blue, these guys are very aware of brain chemistry and keeping your neuro-transmitters balanced. Feeling blue / getting a comedown is very unnecessary when you understand things like serotonin /melatonin and incorporate that in to your 'comedown' or the after treatment from therapy etc.

Again, worth checking which talks are happening at the above conferences. Good way to see the scope of inter-disiplinary work going in to all of these substances across various fields of research and application.

I don't believe these treatments are for everyone but i'm sure they would be a welcome replacement to the endless amount of big-pharma re-prescriptions.

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Re: Medicinal Drugs: Is Psychedelic Therapy the Future?

Post by test_recordings » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:54 am

Yes, this is the medicine of the future, as it was the medicine of the past.

I was a member of the Multidisciplinary Association of Psychedelic Studies (MAPS) who run the psychedelic science convention and they have been doing a lot of successful work the past few years.

Everything you see in the mainstream media about this kind of thing being all new and groundbreaking is a bit of a lie about how covered up it's been of late. This was already done a lot in the '60s and '70s and MDMA was actually invented for counselling!

Also, as someone mentioned, the people who get over their emotional turmoil whilst using the drug DO stay that way afterwards as it's through their own cognitive appreciation of the situation and not the drug itself. It 'unlocks' their mind from whatever state they have got themselves in to, unlike antidepressants and so on that are just addictive rubbish. They may be able to remedy it themselves, but why not just an effective and harmless adjunct to therapy for faster results?
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Re: Medicinal Drugs: Is Psychedelic Therapy the Future?

Post by d-T-r » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:15 am

I know it's nothing new in certain areas, but treatments with ibogaine and ayauascha are fairly new venture (for the West with the increase of shamanic tourism etc It's been going on for a while but it's never been as widespread and open for enquiry as it is currently is. It will happen at the pace it needs too anyway.

sliding thru another epoch of the archaic revival :mrgreen:
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Re: Medicinal Drugs: Is Psychedelic Therapy the Future?

Post by Sonika » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:36 am

isnt ibogaine for heroin addiction?
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Re: Medicinal Drugs: Is Psychedelic Therapy the Future?

Post by SCope13 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:10 am

d-T-r wrote:Learn to achieve similar states in the mean time without anything and you'll benefit much more from being able to get in to natural altered states of conciousness and not always relying on anything outside of yourself)
Interesting, could you expound on this please?
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Re: Medicinal Drugs: Is Psychedelic Therapy the Future?

Post by test_recordings » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:35 am

Sonika wrote:isnt ibogaine for heroin addiction?
Can be, it's also part of indigenous people's shamanic practices and stuff.
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Re: Medicinal Drugs: Is Psychedelic Therapy the Future?

Post by d-T-r » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:54 am

SCope13 wrote:
d-T-r wrote:Learn to achieve similar states in the mean time without anything and you'll benefit much more from being able to get in to natural altered states of conciousness and not always relying on anything outside of yourself)
Interesting, could you expound on this please?
There are various other methods to achieve states similar to that of the psychedelic experience without using them. Things like meditation, Dance (intentional) , Listening to certain sound frequencies,shamanic drumming, didgereedoo sessions, Fasting, astral and lucid dreaming practices (to name a few)

The substances show you the path, and catapult you up it a step or 7, but the same path can be progressed with or without them. getting 'high' without needing to use anything to get high is the ultimate aim. To remain in a state of unwavering bliss, while still being able to function in the world and do your daily thing and also help where help is needed.

I recommend this to those who haven't seen it.


"Bouncing Bear Films is proud to announce our first documentary film. This film is the first in a series of three films discussing various aspects of shamanism. This first film, Manifesting the Mind, is a broad look at psychedelics in general. Why are psychedelics so brutally suppressed in our culture? What exactly are some of the psychedelic plants and chemicals and how can they benefit us? With philosophy and insight from Dennis McKenna, Daniel Pinchbeck, Alex Grey, and many others, this film is not to be missed by anyone interested in psychedelics and shamanism.

Interviews include - Robert Bussinger, Mike Crowley, Timothy Freke, Peter Gandy, Alex Grey, Clark Heinrich, Nick Herbert, John Major Jenkins, Dennis McKenna, Terence McKenna, Daniel Pinchbeck, and Dr. Rick Strassman.
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Re: Medicinal Drugs: Is Psychedelic Therapy the Future?

Post by Muncey » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:04 pm

d-T-r wrote:Check out the above conferences for an idea of some of the topics realated to mdma assisted psychotherapy.

also, who ever told you that you get a 3/4 day hangover from lsd is either lying, had bad acid, or is just unhealthy.

If anything you get a nice 5 hour afterglow and a long sleep ;)

As for feeling blue, these guys are very aware of brain chemistry and keeping your neuro-transmitters balanced. Feeling blue / getting a comedown is very unnecessary when you understand things like serotonin /melatonin and incorporate that in to your 'comedown' or the after treatment from therapy etc.

Again, worth checking which talks are happening at the above conferences. Good way to see the scope of inter-disiplinary work going in to all of these substances across various fields of research and application.

I don't believe these treatments are for everyone but i'm sure they would be a welcome replacement to the endless amount of big-pharma re-prescriptions.
Yeah that last line is a biggy, I don't think its for everybody and I do believe there is some use for psychedelic therapy. I'll definitely read more when I've got a bit of time, I bookmarked one of the pages you linked in the other thread. I was just saying its very easy to put out the good effects and ignore the bad, especially on people who have never taken these substances before. I can completely understand how MDMA can help people who have never taken anything of the sort and just assumed 'all drugs are bad' because they're illegal.. but when given to them by a doctor those good feelings will be pretty intense. How well would they work on people who've taken these many times before, its pretty common that the effects of MDMA definitely fade the more you take it.

Its also easy to attract a crowd of people to these things who don't even give a shit about therapy and its more to do with convincing themselves its safe to take, no offense Sonika but you was pretty active in the other thread and I'm gunna assume you'll be active in this and the reason is to convince yourself these things are safe.. not to see how effective they are as therapy.... thats me assuming you've read nothing on conventional therapy. Don't worry you won't be the only one.

I remember there was some drugs show on TV not long ago everybody was raving on about and they gave some guy MDMA and he felt really uncomfortable and uneasy. Really? A mood enhancing drug and you run a shit load of medical tests on him, sticking him in MRI machines and the like? Of course they're going to be fucking uncomfortable, doesn't take a scientist to work that one out. I'm sure there was some guy with anger issues and it made him violent as well. I turned it off by that point, was just another bullshit program with the name DRUGS in it to attract retards and pretend they're learning science when really its common sense.

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Re: Medicinal Drugs: Is Psychedelic Therapy the Future?

Post by Sonika » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:47 pm

Muncey wrote: Its also easy to attract a crowd of people to these things who don't even give a shit about therapy and its more to do with convincing themselves its safe to take, no offense Sonika but you was pretty active in the other thread and I'm gunna assume you'll be active in this and the reason is to convince yourself these things are safe.. not to see how effective they are as therapy.... thats me assuming you've read nothing on conventional therapy. Don't worry you won't be the only one.

er, well I wasn't consciously trying to do that but there may be some of that involved :lol:


idk, the idea of psychedelic therapy is pretty interesting, using strong drugs that affect your mind in such ways as a therapeutic device (not in the self-medicated way that people do, but actually as a sanctioned scientific procedure) seems like it has a lot of potential?
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Re: Medicinal Drugs: Is Psychedelic Therapy the Future?

Post by frank grimes jr. » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:24 pm

Sonika wrote:I mean, it seems like if the rapist really knows what they're doing it could be incredibly effective
:Q:
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