DAWs with PROPER curved automation?

[Perej]

Why does anyone actually use curves? For me there has never been a situation where I've been automating a parameter and thought that the straight line isn't doing it for me. Just seems like a gimmick, I do understand you can get a different effects by using a curve but MEH.

Why does anyone actually use PHASERS? Just seems like a gimmick, I do understand you can get a different effects by using a PHASER but MEH.

Why does anyone actually use REVERB? Just seems like a gimmick, I do understand you can get a different effects by using a REVERB but MEH.

Etc etc, you get the point. My suggestion would be to try it before criticising it.

Those examples are completely unrelated. Clearly phasers and reverb make a huge difference. Curved automation doesn't.

[VirtualMark]

Those examples are completely unrelated. Clearly phasers and reverb make a huge difference. Curved automation doesn't.

Really? Like I said, try the performer LFO on Massive, listen to the different shapes when modulating a filter. Or Filtershaper - download the demo, try some curves vs straight lines. Honestly, if you can't hear the difference then I'm gobsmacked. For most people it's pretty obvious, and it adds capabilities to your DAW. I really don't know why someone would argue against having more capabilities and an easier workflow?

[syrup]

Why does anyone actually use curves? For me there has never been a situation where I've been automating a parameter and thought that the straight line isn't doing it for me. Just seems like a gimmick, I do understand you can get a different effects by using a curve but MEH.

why not?

i find fast end curve great for risers

[rockonin]

I'm a Cubase user and the automation features are pretty weak and very fidley i have to admit.

[Samuel_L_Damnson]

fuck you guys, reason has the weakest automation curves imo. Still love this shit.

[charles1]

on the idea of fast start / slow start, fast end / slow end, what is the difference (or is there any?), technically speaking, between automating the volume and the attack and release envelopes?

[VirtualMark]

on the idea of fast start / slow start, fast end / slow end, what is the difference (or is there any?), technically speaking, between automating the volume and the attack and release envelopes?

It would depend on the envelope shape - if they're linear or exponential. I've found a couple of images that should show the difference.

A linear envelope:



An exponential envelope:



Some synths allow you to adjust the curve of the attack or the release phase, some don't - Kontakt is an example of one that has a curve control on the attack phase. I think drum synths tend to have exponential curves as they need faster attacks. And of course if you're using envelopes, things like midi note length also play a big part in the final sound.

All curved automation does is give you another level of control. The same effect can be achieved a number of ways, I just happen to like having it in my DAW. That way it doesn't matter what plugin I use, I'll always have the same level of control over it.

[Promise One]

Those examples are completely unrelated. Clearly phasers and reverb make a huge difference. Curved automation doesn't.

Really? Like I said, try the performer LFO on Massive, listen to the different shapes when modulating a filter. Or Filtershaper - download the demo, try some curves vs straight lines. Honestly, if you can't hear the difference then I'm gobsmacked. For most people it's pretty obvious, and it adds capabilities to your DAW. I really don't know why someone would argue against having more capabilities and an easier workflow?

I have tried it, it was one of the first new features I used in Live 9 and yes there is clearly a difference and I'm not against it. Just saying its not all that in comparison to other features I'd rather have in my DAW. However I admire your enthusiasm for using them. Just think if your DAW does curved automation, be happy with that. Not all of them do, nevermind if some DAWs have "PROPER" automation or not.

[mthrfnk]

Why does anyone use curves. Wtf?! Who doesn't use curves? Half the time straight line automation sounds so boring and static. I use Fl and the automation options are good. If they don't sound right I just record the automation from my midi controller.

[VirtualMark]

I have tried it, it was one of the first new features I used in Live 9 and yes there is clearly a difference and I'm not against it. Just saying its not all that in comparison to other features I'd rather have in my DAW. However I admire your enthusiasm for using them. Just think if your DAW does curved automation, be happy with that. Not all of them do, nevermind if some DAWs have "PROPER" automation or not.

I don't really get your point. I just made a thread asking how other DAWs do it, I didn't really see the need to have a debate as to whether or not it was a necessary feature, or how important it is to everyone. Sure, you don't use it, so why comment?

I also emphasized the word "proper" due to the fact that some DAWs claim to have curves and then implement it lazily - that was also why I posted the animation showing bezier curves. I'm not trying to offend anyone, I just wanted to know how other software deals with it.

Are you saying that you don't use curves at all? You don't use a curved envelope for the filter automation in the bass in your sig track? Or a curved LFO of some sort?

[Promise One]

I have tried it, it was one of the first new features I used in Live 9 and yes there is clearly a difference and I'm not against it. Just saying its not all that in comparison to other features I'd rather have in my DAW. However I admire your enthusiasm for using them. Just think if your DAW does curved automation, be happy with that. Not all of them do, nevermind if some DAWs have "PROPER" automation or not.

I don't really get your point. I just made a thread asking how other DAWs do it, I didn't really see the need to have a debate as to whether or not it was a necessary feature, or how important it is to everyone. Sure, you don't use it, so why comment?

I also emphasized the word "proper" due to the fact that some DAWs claim to have curves and then implement it lazily - that was also why I posted the animation showing bezier curves. I'm not trying to offend anyone, I just wanted to know how other software deals with it.

Are you saying that you don't use curves at all? You don't use a curved envelope for the filter automation in the bass in your sig track? Or a curved LFO of some sort?

The best thing that has come from this is that I'm now more likely to use curves as this has highlighted a few benefits of them and therefore it would seem a necessary feature for which I was previously very cynical about. I make all my tunes in Live and everything I've released was using a version of Live that didn't have curve capabilities. Now version 9 has this as a new feature I wasn't really that fussed as its not something I used before or the best implementation of it, compared to say logic. However automation has always been annoying in Live and using curves is something I will consider in the future. That tune is just a ADSR and LFO if I remember correctly.

[Gewze]

curves <3

[ARTFX]

Well having worked with straight automation lines for years, I can only say Ableton Live 9's curves are so much better compared to the older versions. And it also gives you the ability to choose if it's a slow start of fast start, how fast it rises and so on. Maybe not exactly the same as what you showed, but without much problems you can make it look like yours.

[Phase Down]

Why does anyone actually use curves? For me there has never been a situation where I've been automating a parameter and thought that the straight line isn't doing it for me. Just seems like a gimmick, I do understand you can get a different effects by using a curve but MEH.

Why does anyone actually use PHASERS? Just seems like a gimmick, I do understand you can get a different effects by using a PHASER but MEH.

Why does anyone actually use REVERB? Just seems like a gimmick, I do understand you can get a different effects by using a REVERB but MEH.

Etc etc, you get the point. My suggestion would be to try it before criticising it.

Does anyone actually get this point? you are so quickly trying to desperately defend yourself in every situation I can't help but think you are a loser

[didi]

I can't help but think you are a loser

I can't help but think you are a loser

you are a loser

loser

tune battle tbh.

[AxeD]

fuck you guys, reason has the weakest automation curves imo. Still love this shit.

Can make pretty curves in it though

[Samuel_L_Damnson]

well yeah tbh. I thought you could make curves in anything which is why im a bit unsure where this thread is going.

[VirtualMark]

I can't help but think you are a loser

I can't help but think you are a loser

you are a loser

loser

tune battle tbh.

Lol, I was trying to take the high path and ignore it for a change! It does amuse me that he moans when I make a point about the topic of this thread, yet his sole point in posting was to insult me. Is it just me, or is that a touch hypocritical?

well yeah tbh. I thought you could make curves in anything which is why im a bit unsure where this thread is going.

Well it's a pain in the ass in Cubase, it's all straight lines and breakpoints. I'd just like to be able to draw in curves easily in the DAW. As opposed to inside the synth. For me it'd be way more convenient doing it that way - I worn in the box most of the time and don't always have a midi controller to hand, and curved automation is a great way to get filter sweeps sounding good. Some synths I use don't have good modulation, some do. If every synth had the performer LFO from Massive, this wouldn't be a problem. But most don't - FM8 is a massive fucking pain in the ass to work with imo. On my 1080p monitor it appears too small, and programming those envelope breakpoints isn't much fun! I could think of tons more examples, but mostly I just want to have the same amount of control over every plugin I use.

[Rappone]

I dont see where the problem with ableton 9's curve automation is? lol

[charles1]

I dont see where the problem with ableton 9's curve automation is? lol

if you make an automation line with 2 breaks, hold the alt/option button on mac and click on the line and drag it back and forth exactly how the OP's gif is doing it. dunno how to do it on pc