Mastering Compressing Question

[AxeD]

This is the point of compression. When shit starts hitting louder it compresses more.
The whole point is that it's already an automated gain reduction triggered by the input level (or sc).

A multi band compressor on the master is something that's really hard to get right.

[outbound]

don't automate compression in mastering, because if you have a good mix 1- you don't need too, 2- MOST of the times it will sound like crap and be audible.

1. I agree, would be much better to fix this sort of thing in the mix.
2. I would have to disagree. Most of the time it is not needed but if it is and the engineer knows what they want from this process then it is a useful tool to be able to utilise when (and if) appropriate.

[aeor]

ya well, i'd never automate a compressor on the master... MAYBE a limiter .. cause it's slightly different

[SunkLo]

3 options.

1. Have your compression set so that the rest of the mids are compressed to how you like but the snares are over compressed.
2. Have your compression set so that your snares are compressed how you like but the rest of the mix is more dynamic.
3. Automate your compression...

All 3 are valid depending on what sound you're after so try 'em out and find which you prefer.

#4-- get it right in the mix and don't worry about compressing the 2buss.

Came here to basically say this. Velocity is your friend. Listen to the raw drum track with no processing. Are the double snares too loud? Lower the velocity of one or both until they sit right. Then compress the snare channel to taste. Then compress the drum buss to taste. Then compress the 2buss to taste. As you move through the chain you should be applying less and less gain reduction for increased transparency. Your goal is to dial it in at the source, not be whacking 12 dB off the top with a limiter on the master buss.

Be very wary of multiband compression. Most people using it don't know what they're doing, and once you know enough to use it properly, you'll most likely use a different approach. Multibands do have their uses in dealing with recorded audio, post production, etc. There's also something to be said for setting all the bands identical in terms of gain reduction but having each band processed discretely (for example with the waves L16), but you can get similar control with filtering the sidechain of a broadband compressor instead.

Take advantage of the fact that you have the full mix in front of you. Using a multiband compressor to handle all the work is like baking a cake with half the sugar required and then dumping the other half on top when it's done. Get the proportions right before you mix instead of trying to compensate for what's lacking after the fact. The stronger your constituent parts, the better the final product.

If you want a quality, open sounding mix that's loud but still dynamic, start from the source. First composition and arrangement, then sound design/recording/sample selection, then mixing, and finally mastering. The farther you get down that chain, the less chance you have at making things better. Good music isn't made on the master buss.

[outbound]

ya well, i'd never automate a compressor on the master... MAYBE a limiter .. cause it's slightly different

Fair enough mate, everybody has their own way of working. It isn't a method that's for every song but I like knowing that it's there if/when I need to use it.

[SunkLo]

Hey bro, we heard you like gain automation so we automated the gain of your gain automator so you can automate gain while you automate gain!

[outbound]

Hey bro, we heard you like gain automation so we automated the gain of your gain automator so you can automate gain while you automate gain!

[SMOR3S]

This is the point of compression. When shit starts hitting louder it compresses more.
The whole point is that it's already an automated gain reduction triggered by the input level (or sc).

A multi band compressor on the master is something that's really hard to get right.

Ya, I heard of people just using a single band, but I just use Ozone 5, and I feel compressing each band sep gives me more control...

[aeor]

Ya, I heard of people just using a single band, but I just use Ozone 5, and I feel compressing each band sep gives me more control...

if a mix is well crafted you don't need multi-band compression, well you can actually Only harm it ... it can be useful to fix things though.

Hey bro, we heard you like gain automation so we automated the gain of your gain automator so you can automate gain while you automate gain!

I tried that on a mix once .. sounded like shit.

[SMOR3S]

Ya, I heard of people just using a single band, but I just use Ozone 5, and I feel compressing each band sep gives me more control...

if a mix is well crafted you don't need multi-band compression, well you can actually Only harm it ... it can be useful to fix things though.

Hey bro, we heard you like gain automation so we automated the gain of your gain automator so you can automate gain while you automate gain!

I tried that on a mix once .. sounded like shit.

Ya, Idk, I mean, it seems to work for me, I guess... But after I get my next EP done, Ima send it off to get professional mastered... I really should start doing that...

[SunkLo]

Ya, I heard of people just using a single band, but I just use Ozone 5, and I feel compressing each band sep gives me more control...

if a mix is well crafted you don't need multi-band compression, well you can actually Only harm it ... it can be useful to fix things though.

Hey bro, we heard you like gain automation so we automated the gain of your gain automator so you can automate gain while you automate gain!

I tried that on a mix once .. sounded like shit.

Ya, Idk, I mean, it seems to work for me, I guess... But after I get my next EP done, Ima send it off to get professional mastered... I really should start doing that...

You say it works for you, yet here we are in a thread where you're asking why it doesn't work.

It would be a waste of your money to get a track mastered that's been mixed poorly. Don't invest the money before you invest the time in learning to mix like a champion. Then your tracks will already be 95% there and it'll make sense to spend a bit of money to get a second set of ears and some polish put on.

For some reason people have this crazy expectation that mastering is gonna make their tracks sound brilliant. Think of mastering like applying the final brightness and contrast settings in photoshop on some digital art or a 3d render you made. Turning the brightness up a tad isn't gonna do shit if your picture's a mess, get me?

[SMOR3S]

Ya, I heard of people just using a single band, but I just use Ozone 5, and I feel compressing each band sep gives me more control...

if a mix is well crafted you don't need multi-band compression, well you can actually Only harm it ... it can be useful to fix things though.

Hey bro, we heard you like gain automation so we automated the gain of your gain automator so you can automate gain while you automate gain!

I tried that on a mix once .. sounded like shit.

Ya, Idk, I mean, it seems to work for me, I guess... But after I get my next EP done, Ima send it off to get professional mastered... I really should start doing that...

You say it works for you, yet here we are in a thread where you're asking why it doesn't work.

It would be a waste of your money to get a track mastered that's been mixed poorly. Don't invest the money before you invest the time in learning to mix like a champion. Then your tracks will already be 95% there and it'll make sense to spend a bit of money to get a second set of ears and some polish put on.

For some reason people have this crazy expectation that mastering is gonna make their tracks sound brilliant. Think of mastering like applying the final brightness and contrast settings in photoshop on some digital art or a 3d render you made. Turning the brightness up a tad isn't gonna do shit if your picture's a mess, get me?

I was never talking about my mix... I was just wondering if it was okay, if my mid range got compressed a little harder, when per se, like snare rolls, where it's really busy... I was talking about when I master... Sorry if I was confusing people...

[SunkLo]

Maybe you confused yourself, you didn't seem to get that the problem lies with your mix, not your mastering. Take the multiband off, make it sound good, then put your master compression back on. It'll sound much better.

Why compress the whole midrange band when you can just compress the snare?

[3rdeye]

I never chip in around here but thought I would on this post.

Mastering is a basic eq / compressor / limiter chain.

As a few have said, if your mix down is even half decent your only mastering to raise the overall level and compressing to make the track elements gel that little bit tighter.

I agree on mixing to -6dB. I find it leaves nice head room in the daw so you get decent dynamics in the tune.

With regard to multi band compression, can't personally say I use it, see the point of them or have come across them in a mastering session. Again people tend to use these to try and balance out a poor mix down. IMO.

Agreed. Although in recent self-mastering experiments (I do 'em on my dubs for playing out etc) I have had good results using multi-band compression. I implement them more as a kind of reactive EQ to catch unruly frequencies I may have missed in the mixdown rather than for severe multi-squashing. Before the track gets professionally mastered I'll often adjust my mixdown based on my experience with the self-master.

One thing I have noticed - multi-band compression on the 2-buss can be quite effective in emphasising the attack/transients of snares and kicks. I've found with the right crossovers and attack/release settings in the low-mid and high-mid bands it can be very useful to add more punch to "big snare", heavier drum sounds (over and above compressing the individual tracks).

[SunkLo]

I never chip in around here but thought I would on this post.

Mastering is a basic eq / compressor / limiter chain.

As a few have said, if your mix down is even half decent your only mastering to raise the overall level and compressing to make the track elements gel that little bit tighter.

I agree on mixing to -6dB. I find it leaves nice head room in the daw so you get decent dynamics in the tune.

With regard to multi band compression, can't personally say I use it, see the point of them or have come across them in a mastering session. Again people tend to use these to try and balance out a poor mix down. IMO.

Agreed. Although in recent self-mastering experiments (I do 'em on my dubs for playing out etc) I have had good results using multi-band compression. I implement them more as a kind of reactive EQ to catch unruly frequencies I may have missed in the mixdown rather than for severe multi-squashing. Before the track gets professionally mastered I'll often adjust my mixdown based on my experience with the self-master.

One thing I have noticed - multi-band compression on the 2-buss can be quite effective in emphasising the attack/transients of snares and kicks. I've found with the right crossovers and attack/release settings in the low-mid and high-mid bands it can be very useful to add more punch to "big snare", heavier drum sounds (over and above compressing the individual tracks).

Yeah they're pretty great for transients upper harmonics, especially after tweaking the timings as you mentioned. I find it too tempting to over-hype the upper end though, so I'll try to keep them to just a drum submix or an individual channel. I like to get the "corrective" processing done before the character stuff, ie get the dynamic balance of a snare sorted with a multiband before bussing to my drum glue.

I find one area where the multiband on the master situation is useful is to set a broad target which you then go try to hit in the mix without the processing on the 2buss. Similar to using it to get a reference mix for what things will/could sound like after mastering and then mixing towards that.

ps still waiting on that recent Raw & Soulful

[3rdeye]

ps still waiting on that recent Raw & Soulful

ahaha shit, seen! actually, funny you should mention that (I may have started compiling the track list for vol 4 last week)

[SunkLo]

ps still waiting on that recent Raw & Soulful

ahaha shit, seen! actually, funny you should mention that (I may have started compiling the track list for vol 4 last week)

Oh do you have a mixcloud or will it be on soundcloud? Put that shit in your sig, the greater dsf populace needs to know.

[twilitez]

Of course paying for actual mastering is almost always better (if you have the right ppl for it), but who can afford that without the prospect of 'some' sales?
Thats the real pinch in this whole deal. I wouldnt throw 50 bucks at something thats gonna end up a free tune on SC, and lots of people probably feel the same.
Just playing the devil's advocate for a bit here.

[aeor]

I wouldnt throw 50 bucks at something thats gonna end up a free tune on SC, and lots of people probably feel the same.

that's when you hire me !

[SunkLo]

Of course paying for actual mastering is almost always better (if you have the right ppl for it), but who can afford that without the prospect of 'some' sales?
Thats the real pinch in this whole deal. I wouldnt throw 50 bucks at something thats gonna end up a free tune on SC, and lots of people probably feel the same.
Just playing the devil's advocate for a bit here.

Yeah I agree, learning to do quick and dirty self masters for playing out is important until you get a record signed or have a back catalog of quality shit that you want to release for promotional material. Until then, just keep stockpiling projects on your hard drive and work on getting pristine mixes. I wouldn't hire a mastering engineer until I knew a mix was near flawless. It's also useful to go back and open up old projects, and mix them again. As you acquire more skill at mixing you'll realize that tracks which you thought were mint several months ago, now sound like shit and can be touched up significantly. This also applies to the other aspects of production too; you may realize the arrangement or sound design could be greatly improved.

I think there's value in committing to a track when you know it's done to the best of your ability, but recognize that your ability will change and that patience is rewarded. You'll always be improving so there comes a time when you'll need to decide whether the threshold has been passed between professional and amateur, but for instance not recognizing why a poor mix could cause a master buss compressor to have to do too much work, to me, is indicative of not being at that level yet. People are so focused on making it big they don't want to remain in the mindset of a student. But it's precisely that mindset that will give you the skills you want with hard work. Personally, I'd rather wait a year and dramatically improve my mixing than to rush out a half-assed mix and expect a mastering engineer to fix it, especially when there's a monetary investment involved. Granted you can get mastering on the cheap like dude above, but a 5$ master nor a 500$ master isn't gonna make your track kick ass.

It all depends on what you want out of it I suppose, and where you draw the line between putting out something good enough, and putting in the extra work and time to get an extraordinary result.