My paradox

[skell1ngton777]

getting laid trumps everything else

[magma]

I'm kind of realising that a lot of Atheists don't really seem to know why they are atheist and they are just going along with peer consensus or whatever, and that there is such a thing as 'atheist dogma'.

Not claiming this is anything new, just never really thought about it before.

I think a lot/most people believe what someone they trusted told them to believe when it comes to things like this. Although spirituality/religion can feel massive, it's actually fairly minor in day to day life... most people make the choice young and then dont' really interrogate it again.

A great deal of atheists that I speak to have never done any kind of serious scientific experiment into proving the nature of existence or the existence of God, yet because their parents, a science teacher, general consensus on the Internet or Richard Dawkins told them in an authoritative and logical manner why God probably doesn't exist, they just accepted it as fact. It's no different to the process of young kids being indoctrinated into book religion, tbh.

Obviously, I tend to agree with an atheist's opinion on God and organised religion far more than I do to Christians or Buddhists, but I think there are just as many blind followers on both sides. The funny thing is, it's often the blind followers that are most aggressive.

[skell1ngton777]

So true!

It does always seem to be the people who know the least who are the loudest about stuff.. I suppose dogma requires a certain amount of mindless agression as a matter of survival (for the dogma not the person).

[magma]

So true!

It does always seem to be the people who know the least who are the loudest about stuff.. I suppose dogma requires a certain amount of mindless agression as a matter of survival (for the dogma not the person).

It requires some sort of authority, I think - when people are told something by someone they consider to have proper authority, they don't question it nearly as much. Gaining a position of authority through aggression/threat is much quicker than getting it through respect or reason.... "I'll believe Dad because if I don't he might hit me", "I'll believe the priest because if not I'll have to go to extra Sunday School", "I'll believe teacher because if I don't I'll fail my exams and have a shit life" or "I'll believe Dawkins because my clever mate read his book and told me all about it. If you don't believe it yu're a fucking clown!"

It's all quite a lot easier, quicker and more likely than "I'll believe Mr Thoughtful after hearing everything he has to say and weighing it fairly against everything else I've heard."

[skell1ngton777]

yeah

i think it has an element of laziness too i suppose.. like it's easier to just go along with whatever everyone else is doing.

Also people are really good at lying to themselves, especially if it alleviates any existential burden from their minds.. but i think that applies more to religious people..

unless there are people who somehow derive comfort from the idea of a meaningless existence

i do think there might be

[Genevieve]

Reply's two years late, Genevieve. He converted.

Thought it was an interesting topic

[magma]

Reply's two years late, Genevieve. He converted.

Thought it was an interesting topic

Sorry, that came across way harsher than the tongue-in-cheek comment it was meant as! It's most definitely an interesting topic... it's usually me missing the fact that there's 3 inches of dust settled on the OP.

[Genevieve]

Haha naw didn't come across as harsh. Just woulda liked the discussion

[Genevieve]

I'm kind of realising that a lot of Atheists don't really seem to know why they are atheist and they are just going along with peer consensus or whatever, and that there is such a thing as 'atheist dogma'.

Not claiming this is anything new, just never really thought about it before.

Well, it's not that atheists are dogmatic, but that people are. With anythang.

My favorite example is how scientists discovered that 'Apple' triggers the region of the brain in Apple fans that 'religion' does in religious people. And while it's really obnoxious to say that 'atheism is a religion', I think it's true. In a way anyway.

Like I know this dude who has the 'A' for 'atheist' tattooed on his shoulder. He's proud of it. Though he's your average "LOL RELIGION IS FOR BRAINWASHED MORANS LMAO" type dude with barely any grasp of the science he claims to be such a proud follower of "science" (dunno how you can be a follower of a systematic approach at figuring things out, but he... is? To me science isn't 'good' or 'bad', it just 'is'.) He didn't contribute anything to atheism, him being an 'atheist' doesn't say anything about him as a person, just that he has disbelief in the supernatural and he wears that as a defining badge of honor.

So you know, I don't think that religion itself is the problem. I think it's that one brain trigger and it can be triggered by any type of tribal fanaticism.

For example, rape is a symptom of a violent society where a person feels the need to dominate another. While we should strive to end rape forever, I don't think that you do it by looking at _rape_ itself as the problem (I mean, it is a problem, but it's the symptom of THE problem). You need to look at the underlying social structure that permits it and encourages violent oppression of ANY kind (like statism, racism, nationalism, etc). It goes beyond just being merely a 'men against women' thing.

You see the same type of blind religiosity in soundsystem culture and the dubstep scene, or the black metal scene, hip-hop. Hell you see people arguing the same way about beer and what clothes they like. So I think it's intellectually lazy to just blame 'religion' for all the ills of society, when it's not religion but the 'braing trigger'. Religion just results in more brutality because it touches on some more fundamental ideas to humans than entertainment or appearance.

I'm also convinced that if I can listen to black metal or wear my clothes without feeling that 'trigger', that religious people are also capable of getting all the benefits and comfort out of religion without that experiencing that 'trigger'.

That was a longer post than I expected.

[Leave Blank]

I'm kind of realising that a lot of Atheists don't really seem to know why they are atheist and they are just going along with peer consensus or whatever, and that there is such a thing as 'atheist dogma'.

Not claiming this is anything new, just never really thought about it before.

I think a lot/most people believe what someone they trusted told them to believe when it comes to things like this. Although spirituality/religion can feel massive, it's actually fairly minor in day to day life... most people make the choice young and then dont' really interrogate it again.

A great deal of atheists that I speak to have never done any kind of serious scientific experiment into proving the nature of existence or the existence of God, yet because their parents, a science teacher, general consensus on the Internet or Richard Dawkins told them in an authoritative and logical manner why God probably doesn't exist, they just accepted it as fact. It's no different to the process of young kids being indoctrinated into book religion, tbh.

Obviously, I tend to agree with an atheist's opinion on God and organised religion far more than I do to Christians or Buddhists, but I think there are just as many blind followers on both sides. The funny thing is, it's often the blind followers that are most aggressive.

Magma mate, don't wanna come across too smooshy but, you are probably one of the most intelligent guys on here! You totally get it. Despite our differences in world-view, I really feel you have a gift in being graceful to others. It's something I'm not always great at. I reckon it'd be sick to chat shit with you at a rave (we gotta meet up inn Brizzle or Ldn at some point.




To clarify: I am the OP, I was an atheist (albeit, a rather narrow minded one). I have since, come to faith In Jesus Christ.
Not particularly interested in engaging in debate at this point as it takes up far too much of my time and I'm exceptionally busy.

If you wanna slag me off for my views or ask a question can I ask that you pm me? I'm quite happy that a piece of my old self is preserved on-line and fear that, if this thread begins to derail it might get modded and/or deleted and I think that would be a shame as there are some great things said in here.

I'm not shutting the conversation down though, by all means carry on just don't call me out for not getting too heavily involved with the convo.


I'm starting a blog that is in the polishing stages right now before it goes live in which I will be sharing things about my journey to faith, engaging in theological and secular debate etc and I think one of the entries might consist of my current response to my OP. I'll link y'all up when it's online.

[ninjadog]

There is no paradox there. She is a girl, she will try and change you, you will try to resist, you will either change and accept christ as your savior or just break up. Seems a bit egotistical to me that you claim to be the key for this chicks eternal happiness. Your both obviously in the beginning stages of love where everything is great. Give it a few years and see how well that house of love holds up against the shit storms of life.
Not trying to sound like a prick, just giving my honest opinion.

[Phigure]

There is no paradox there. She is a girl, she will try and change you, you will try to resist, you will either change and accept christ as your savior or just break up. Seems a bit egotistical to me that you claim to be the key for this chicks eternal happiness. Your both obviously in the beginning stages of love where everything is great. Give it a few years and see how well that house of love holds up against the shit storms of life.
Not trying to sound like a prick, just giving my honest opinion.

dude this thread is old as fuck

but for what its worth, you're right, she did change him

[Leave Blank]

There is no paradox there. She is a girl, she will try and change you, you will try to resist, you will either change and accept christ as your savior or just break up. Seems a bit egotistical to me that you claim to be the key for this chicks eternal happiness. Your both obviously in the beginning stages of love where everything is great. Give it a few years and see how well that house of love holds up against the shit storms of life.
Not trying to sound like a prick, just giving my honest opinion.

I made the OP in 2010. It's 2013, we're still in love. I'm a Christian now.

[ninjadog]

There is no paradox there. She is a girl, she will try and change you, you will try to resist, you will either change and accept christ as your savior or just break up. Seems a bit egotistical to me that you claim to be the key for this chicks eternal happiness. Your both obviously in the beginning stages of love where everything is great. Give it a few years and see how well that house of love holds up against the shit storms of life.
Not trying to sound like a prick, just giving my honest opinion.

I made the OP in 2010. It's 2013, we're still in love. I'm a Christian now.

Well thats awesome your still in love, hope it continues for you two. Makes me laugh I called the part about her changing you...Chicks...

[Leave Blank]

just posted a response to my op and a few other bits in my new blog for those that might be interested...
http://leavingitblank.wordpress.com/201 ... n-atheist/

[joeki]

I think the only paradox here was Religious people in Bristol.

[kay]

I'm kind of realising that a lot of Atheists don't really seem to know why they are atheist and they are just going along with peer consensus or whatever, and that there is such a thing as 'atheist dogma'.

Not claiming this is anything new, just never really thought about it before.

Well, it's not that atheists are dogmatic, but that people are. With anythang.

My favorite example is how scientists discovered that 'Apple' triggers the region of the brain in Apple fans that 'religion' does in religious people. And while it's really obnoxious to say that 'atheism is a religion', I think it's true. In a way anyway.

Like I know this dude who has the 'A' for 'atheist' tattooed on his shoulder. He's proud of it. Though he's your average "LOL RELIGION IS FOR BRAINWASHED MORANS LMAO" type dude with barely any grasp of the science he claims to be such a proud follower of "science" (dunno how you can be a follower of a systematic approach at figuring things out, but he... is? To me science isn't 'good' or 'bad', it just 'is'.) He didn't contribute anything to atheism, him being an 'atheist' doesn't say anything about him as a person, just that he has disbelief in the supernatural and he wears that as a defining badge of honor.

So you know, I don't think that religion itself is the problem. I think it's that one brain trigger and it can be triggered by any type of tribal fanaticism.

For example, rape is a symptom of a violent society where a person feels the need to dominate another. While we should strive to end rape forever, I don't think that you do it by looking at _rape_ itself as the problem (I mean, it is a problem, but it's the symptom of THE problem). You need to look at the underlying social structure that permits it and encourages violent oppression of ANY kind (like statism, racism, nationalism, etc). It goes beyond just being merely a 'men against women' thing.

You see the same type of blind religiosity in soundsystem culture and the dubstep scene, or the black metal scene, hip-hop. Hell you see people arguing the same way about beer and what clothes they like. So I think it's intellectually lazy to just blame 'religion' for all the ills of society, when it's not religion but the 'braing trigger'. Religion just results in more brutality because it touches on some more fundamental ideas to humans than entertainment or appearance.

I'm also convinced that if I can listen to black metal or wear my clothes without feeling that 'trigger', that religious people are also capable of getting all the benefits and comfort out of religion without that experiencing that 'trigger'.

That was a longer post than I expected.

I think different people react to the "trigger" to different degrees. I'd postulate that a frothing atheist (ie a religious atheist) would probably have a higher chance of being a very religious Christian given a different set of life circumstances, compared to you. Or me.

[Leave Blank]

I'd like to point out that, whilst I was a fairly frothing atheist, I'm not a very religious Christian.

[Phigure]

I'd like to point out that, whilst I was a fairly frothing atheist, I'm not a very religious Christian.

didnt you say that you were going to write a book

[Leave Blank]

I may or may not have, it's an idea iv'e always toyed with. I love to write. The trouble is, in the everlasting debate between faith in a deity and the opposite, there is already a wealth of great material. I could only hope, at best, to stand on the shoulders of some of those giants in apologetics.