Some mastering Techniques I've personally used.

[kylekronez]

So what I'll do on alot of my mixes is resample the whole entire song through ableton copy and paste on to a new screen. Then I put a limiter over the audio track set it to same tempo. I like to only leave my snares redlining through the original master @ about +.5db. Then on the newly placed audio track I put a limiter and EQ over the Audio track. I set my limiter to -3db and cut the 240hz by about .5db. Then what I do is set a limiter over my master @+3db this all depends on the track of course if it takes my computer to much processing speed or not (normally CPU is taken up largely due to either Midi or Resampling other audios.)

I'm running right now off of a 2009 Macbook pro 6 gigs of RAM and 2.0 Processing speed. No matter though this is a technique I learned from Mr. Bill (watch his tutorials amazing.) So in principal the way I look at how the sound quality (I keep my shit @44HZ ALWAYS before bouncing down anything because of that 2.0ghz... but when I do I boost that shit up to 96hz I don't REALLY know how much that matters or not.)

I've been told though that doing this does reduce the sounds actual quality. So lets say my track was at 24bit I've been told no matter what it will boost it down to 16bit... I don't know how much I believe that because the computer itself doesn't really get bogged down trying to actually recreate the audio.

So basically I'm asking HOW RIGHT IS IT TO DO THIS and also trying to teach a thing or two as well.
Keep on Mixin.
Much Love,
Kyle Kronez

[AxeD]

You start with talking about resampling the mix. As an engineer you are always advised to avoid any resampling at 'all' costs.
Because you simply loose quality. Digital audio isn't perfect to begin with, so resampling just adds to this.

[SunkLo]

cut the 240hz by about .5db

Yeah you can definitely hear the difference that .5dB makes


"It's too bright in here..." <sticks postage stamp over window> "Yeah that's better."

[claudedefaren]

If you can't hear the difference .5dB makes you might want to consider a new hobby

[AxeD]

If you can't hear the difference .5dB makes you might want to consider a new hobby

0.5 dB? Yeah depends on the q factor of course, but he's talking about a certain frequency.
That would be quite hard to notice. Definitely in the mix.

[SunkLo]

It's pretty damn hard to hear even a 3dB change in the whole mix let alone just in a certain bandwidth of a mix. I doubt any human is capable of picking out a 0.5dB change in overall volume. Even more impossible when it's just an EQ cut. If you think you can discern the improvement of that small of a cut, you're a shining proponent of the placebo affect.

When EQing I usually go to +/- 6dB and then pull it back a couple dB if I'm really trying to be subtle. Those types of minute variances are only audible when many of them stack up on the 2buss.

[Ada]

It's pretty damn hard to hear even a 3dB change in the whole mix let alone just in a certain bandwidth of a mix. I doubt any human is capable of picking out a 0.5dB change in overall volume. Even more impossible when it's just an EQ cut. If you think you can discern the improvement of that small of a cut, you're a shining proponent of the placebo affect.

When EQing I usually go to +/- 6dB and then pull it back a couple dB if I'm really trying to be subtle. Those types of minute variances are only audible when many of them stack up on the 2buss.

This 0.5dB change talk is making me confused. Decibel is a logarithmic unit.. you can't really say "you cant hear 0.5dB but you can hear 3dB"... it doesn't make any sense since it depends on the relative dB you "start at". Or does the ear work logarithmic aswell? Wow.. now I'm confused. Thanks SunkLo!

[SunkLo]

Yep, subjectively a change in x dB will sound essentially the same regardless, but mathematically speaking the change in power is dependent on the original level. Although it's not perfectly linear and frequency affects the perception of loudness change. You could probably hear pretty minute changes in a 3khz wave but in the low end the ear's sensitivity is much lower.

[Ada]

Yep, subjectively a change in x dB will sound essentially the same regardless, but mathematically speaking the change in power is dependent on the original level. Although it's not perfectly linear and frequency affects the perception of loudness change. You could probably hear pretty minute changes in a 3khz wave but in the low end the ear's sensitivity is much lower.

Ah I see. Thanks for clearing that up!

[AxeD]

Figured we were talking dBFS though.

[claudedefaren]

If you can't hear the difference .5dB makes you might want to consider a new hobby

0.5 dB? Yeah depends on the q factor of course, but he's talking about a certain frequency.
That would be quite hard to notice. Definitely in the mix.

Oh I see. That doesn't really make any sense why he would notch down the 240hz partial of the entire mix by 0.5dB

It's pretty damn hard to hear even a 3dB change in the whole mix let alone just in a certain bandwidth of a mix. I doubt any human is capable of picking out a 0.5dB change in overall volume. Even more impossible when it's just an EQ cut. If you think you can discern the improvement of that small of a cut, you're a shining proponent of the placebo affect.

When EQing I usually go to +/- 6dB and then pull it back a couple dB if I'm really trying to be subtle. Those types of minute variances are only audible when many of them stack up on the 2buss.

Totally disagree here, 3dB makes a RADICAL difference.

No placebo effect. Train your ears. This stuff matters.

However, it is important to note that the OP was talking about making a 0.5dB cut at one tiny frequency, which I was unaware of and I assume you were when you made this post. Obviously 0.5dB at one frequency is going to be extremely difficult to hear.

[SunkLo]

Figured we were talking dBFS though.

Yeah I was initially. If you compare 0dBFS to -6dBFS and -50dBFS to -56dBFS when they're both level matched and at the same frequency, the change will sound the same since a change of 6 dB equates to about a halving of the power.

The only way a 0.5 cut would really be useful is if you had 12 tracks that you performed the cut on. When those 12 tracks are summed at the master buss, the amplitude in whatever band you made the cut in would be 6dB quieter. So cumulatively, it's audible, but a single tiny cut on it's own isn't doing much.

[SunkLo]

Totally disagree here, 3dB makes a RADICAL difference.

No placebo effect. Train your ears. This stuff matters.

However, it is important to note that the OP was talking about making a 0.5dB cut at one tiny frequency, which I was unaware of and I assume you were when you made this post. Obviously 0.5dB at one frequency is going to be extremely difficult to hear.

Yeah actually I don't know why I said that. I think I meant a 3db EQ cut, which is pretty hard to discern. A 0.5dB attenuation of the whole track though is pretty imperceptible, especially in dynamic music, and even more so when it's just an EQ cut.

[claudedefaren]

Well, it may not be eeeaasy or obvious to hear, but you can definitely notice a difference when you cut or boost a chunk by 0.5dB. And all that stuff adds up in the end.

[Crimsonghost]

Well, it may not be eeeaasy or obvious to hear, but you can definitely notice a difference when you cut or boost a chunk by 0.5dB. And all that stuff adds up in the end.

It could depending on the q. Or hi/low shelfing. But cutting a sharp .5 db notch most likely isn't going to do much. Maybe in the upper fq (5k+) it might be more noticeable where you might actually have some harsh transients to tame. But at 240hz? I don't get it.

[SunkLo]

Pretty sure it was just the result of the ole EQ placebo trick.
Similar to the classic "Yeah just a bit extra there.. and shave a bit off there... adjust the Q a bit... tiny bit less gain.... and VOILA! Masterpie- oh wait, the EQ's bypassed..."

So moral of the story, spam the bypass button a bunch of times so you don't know whether it's in or out (match perceived volume if it's a compression plugin). Toggle it back and forth with your eyes closed and open your eyes when you figure out which one sounds better. I've done this many times where the better sounding one was with the effect bypassed. Rip er off and move on. No sense in adding effects just for the sake of adding effects.

[outbound]

Thought I'd chip in.

That 0.5 DB cut at 240Hz first of all:-

Yes bad practise to always assume you will need that cut. Low-mids can get muddy yes but always? nope. What if your mix is deficient specifically at 240Hz? that cut will only make things worse.

As for whether it makes a difference, I would say yes. If you have a very wide Q factor then it is much easier to pick up on these things (even at such a small increment) if it is just a very narrow cut then it is going to be extremely difficult to notice. In an untreated environment close to impossible and compared to the resampling limiting going on? It's going to be the least of your worries!

@OP I would advise against destructive processing at the mastering stage. When you're writing/sound designing then yeah it can be a great way to save on CPU and commit to decisions but at the mastering stage I wouldn't.

[Add9]

"Yeah just a bit extra there.. and shave a bit off there... adjust the Q a bit... tiny bit less gain.... and VOILA! Masterpie- oh wait, the EQ's bypassed..."

LOL story of my life! It's like "man, you would think I would be able to hear these EQ changes more, I didn't realize it was that transparent..." and then 10 minutes later realizing that I opened up the wrong EQ that was on a different bus than the one I was working on

[wub]

Have edited the thread to keep it on track, please keep it civil moving forward

[titchbit]

Figured we were talking dBFS though.

Yeah I was initially. If you compare 0dBFS to -6dBFS and -50dBFS to -56dBFS when they're both level matched and at the same frequency, the change will sound the same since a change of 6 dB equates to about a halving of the power.

Do you mean 3 db?

A change in power ratio by a factor of two is approximately a 3 dB change.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel