ozone maximiser

[Fletchur]

Hey so basically I've started to try and learn more about izotopes ozone. At the minute I've been using the Maximiser but not too much. For this track Soundcloud I set it down about -4.7. Now what I'm asking is this. I set it to -4.7 but felt I couldn't get much more out of it without running the risk of distortion and it showing red. For this type of track I don't mind it, its a more dynamic quiet piece anyway.

The thing is however, when I make lets say a dance music track like dubstep, I'm going to want to compete and reach loudness. How will I be able to get any more from the dubstep mixdown than say the dynamic one? Sorry if this question is a bit strange but basically, if I can't get much from a soft orchestral mixdown then how will I able to get any more from a dubstep track?

Hope that makes sense thanks

[SunkLo]

Don't make the maximizer do all the work. Compress parts individually so that when they sum, they're already fairly loud. Minimize clashing as much as possible with arrangement and EQ. Basically just put more work into the mix and the mastering job will be easier and more transparent.

[sburton84]

There's a lot more to getting a loud mix than just mashing it through a limiter on the master.

[Fletchur]

There's a lot more to getting a loud mix than just mashing it through a limiter on the master.

Ok fair enough, but I haven't learnt many other features of ozone yet and this question is specific to the maximiser.

[Fletchur]

Don't make the maximizer do all the work. Compress parts individually so that when they sum, they're already fairly loud. Minimize clashing as much as possible with arrangement and EQ. Basically just put more work into the mix and the mastering job will be easier and more transparent.

So by like compressing the signal of individual parts this creates more room individually to thus create more room overall for the maximiser? Is this the right thinking or not haha

[sburton84]

There's a lot more to getting a loud mix than just mashing it through a limiter on the master.

Ok fair enough, but I haven't learnt many other features of ozone yet and this question is specific to the maximiser.

My statement was a correction of the misconception that appears be the basis for your entire question. You basically need to learn a lot more about compression, limiting and dynamic range in general. Obviously a mix that is less dynamic to begin with will probably be able to take less limiting before the distortion is obvious. But this is because the whole point of limiting (and compression) is the reduction of dyanamic range; if it's already reduced to a lot less, than you probably don't *need* to limit it as much. Of course, it's a bit more complicated than this in practice. As SunkLo says, if you want a loud mix you really need the addition of various subtle compression on each bus/element, rather than trying to just shove everything through a limiter at the end. This brings up the RMS while mimising the distortion, then you can add the limiter at the end just to squeeze out that extra 1-2dB.

[SunkLo]

Don't make the maximizer do all the work. Compress parts individually so that when they sum, they're already fairly loud. Minimize clashing as much as possible with arrangement and EQ. Basically just put more work into the mix and the mastering job will be easier and more transparent.

So by like compressing the signal of individual parts this creates more room individually to thus create more room overall for the maximiser? Is this the right thinking or not haha

Kind of.

For one, a compressor taking off lots of gain is going to be way more obvious than taking off a bit of gain right? So if you compress bit by bit in series it will sound much more transparent than beating it with a hammer at the end.

Consider the ideal situation where your track is already at the perfect level of dynamics when it hits the master. It's gonna sound much more open since the bass isn't triggering a squeeze on the hats and the snare isn't triggering a squeeze on the synths. To do this you need to have already handled all the dynamics processing on individual channels. A keyboard track might need a lot of compression to fill out but your bass is already pretty close, snare might need a bit of squish but your kick's good. You can tailor the compression for each instrument instead of broadly applying it over the whole mix. There's a lot of people who mix without anything on their master for this reason, you can get a certain type of clarity and separation this way.

Personally I like a bit of master compression for rhythmic glue, it keeps everything bouncing around with each other. I also like to buss similar elements together and compress a bit there too. So I might have a hihat that gets some compression on its insert, which then busses to a percussion group to get glued with the rest of the drums, and then on to the master to get glued into the whole mix. Compressing things together makes them operate as one unit because they're getting the same amp envelope applied. So track compression is to get the instrument where it should be dynamically, buss compression sticks it in its place with the other elements that it should be playing with, and then master compression glues those groups together into a whole.

You don't want to apply an excessive amount on the master cause that's just gonna squish everything into one big wall of mush. You still want things to have their own identity, so if you need more compression somewhere, apply it at the track level instead. Squeeze more at the source, less at the destination.

[Fletchur]

Don't make the maximizer do all the work. Compress parts individually so that when they sum, they're already fairly loud. Minimize clashing as much as possible with arrangement and EQ. Basically just put more work into the mix and the mastering job will be easier and more transparent.

So by like compressing the signal of individual parts this creates more room individually to thus create more room overall for the maximiser? Is this the right thinking or not haha

Kind of.

For one, a compressor taking off lots of gain is going to be way more obvious than taking off a bit of gain right? So if you compress bit by bit in series it will sound much more transparent than beating it with a hammer at the end.

Consider the ideal situation where your track is already at the perfect level of dynamics when it hits the master. It's gonna sound much more open since the bass isn't triggering a squeeze on the hats and the snare isn't triggering a squeeze on the synths. To do this you need to have already handled all the dynamics processing on individual channels. A keyboard track might need a lot of compression to fill out but your bass is already pretty close, snare might need a bit of squish but your kick's good. You can tailor the compression for each instrument instead of broadly applying it over the whole mix. There's a lot of people who mix without anything on their master for this reason, you can get a certain type of clarity and separation this way.

Personally I like a bit of master compression for rhythmic glue, it keeps everything bouncing around with each other. I also like to buss similar elements together and compress a bit there too. So I might have a hihat that gets some compression on its insert, which then busses to a percussion group to get glued with the rest of the drums, and then on to the master to get glued into the whole mix. Compressing things together makes them operate as one unit because they're getting the same amp envelope applied. So track compression is to get the instrument where it should be dynamically, buss compression sticks it in its place with the other elements that it should be playing with, and then master compression glues those groups together into a whole.

You don't want to apply an excessive amount on the master cause that's just gonna squish everything into one big wall of mush. You still want things to have their own identity, so if you need more compression somewhere, apply it at the track level instead. Squeeze more at the source, less at the destination.

Thanks for that reply! I can see sense now in what you are saying, especially about buss compression - I can see how you can make the elements kind of mesh together easier. Is this why when you send it to the master then its "louder" because the maximiser is working with compressed signals anyway? Sorry if that sounds stupid but I do understand what you are saying about the individual compression. That has helped a lot and I'm going to research this further

[Mr 50]

As SunkLo said very well - compressing each element to it's best means you have total control over dynamics = better mix.

I'm not sure if this is something that is good advice or not, but it's something I do: put heavy compression on the master to see what it messes up. Usually this element needs adjusting in the mix. Obviously the master comp comes off, it's just a test I do.

Now the obvious thing to say here is that the way a master compressor will change all sounds together is way different than individual sounds and this shouldn't necessarily mean it's wrong in the mix if the master comp effects it badly... however so far it's been right 80 or 90% of the time so I keep doing it

It's probably just down to the way I produce but try it, might help.

[Fletchur]

As SunkLo said very well - compressing each element to it's best means you have total control over dynamics = better mix.

I'm not sure if this is something that is good advice or not, but it's something I do: put heavy compression on the master to see what it messes up. Usually this element needs adjusting in the mix. Obviously the master comp comes off, it's just a test I do.

Now the obvious thing to say here is that the way a master compressor will change all sounds together is way different than individual sounds and this shouldn't necessarily mean it's wrong in the mix if the master comp effects it badly... however so far it's been right 80 or 90% of the time so I keep doing it

It's probably just down to the way I produce but try it, might help.

Thanks for the reply. Is that how you tell what dynamics needs adjusting by compressing the master as a test like you said? Are there any other ways to tell what it going to need to be altered. I don't want to just start compressing tracks or busses if I don't understand why I need to alter the dynamics if that makes sense?

[Mr 50]

As SunkLo said very well - compressing each element to it's best means you have total control over dynamics = better mix.

I'm not sure if this is something that is good advice or not, but it's something I do: put heavy compression on the master to see what it messes up. Usually this element needs adjusting in the mix. Obviously the master comp comes off, it's just a test I do.

Now the obvious thing to say here is that the way a master compressor will change all sounds together is way different than individual sounds and this shouldn't necessarily mean it's wrong in the mix if the master comp effects it badly... however so far it's been right 80 or 90% of the time so I keep doing it

It's probably just down to the way I produce but try it, might help.

Thanks for the reply. Is that how you tell what dynamics needs adjusting by compressing the master as a test like you said? Are there any other ways to tell what it going to need to be altered. I don't want to just start compressing tracks or busses if I don't understand why I need to alter the dynamics if that makes sense?

Nope, not really, it just will just usually show what's wrong, be that too quiet, too harsh, too whatever. Ensure you take my comment as a personal technique that is probably down to a lot of different factors in how i work causing it to 'work' for me. I would imagine A LOT of people would tell you this is a bad idea, probably rightly so.

You've got the right attitude though - understanding why you need to alter it rather than simply deciding you have to compress something. Get your youtube on man, being able to see a compressor in action and the decisions been taken is probably more effective than my ramblings will be!

[Fletchur]

As SunkLo said very well - compressing each element to it's best means you have total control over dynamics = better mix.

I'm not sure if this is something that is good advice or not, but it's something I do: put heavy compression on the master to see what it messes up. Usually this element needs adjusting in the mix. Obviously the master comp comes off, it's just a test I do.

Now the obvious thing to say here is that the way a master compressor will change all sounds together is way different than individual sounds and this shouldn't necessarily mean it's wrong in the mix if the master comp effects it badly... however so far it's been right 80 or 90% of the time so I keep doing it

It's probably just down to the way I produce but try it, might help.

Thanks for the reply. Is that how you tell what dynamics needs adjusting by compressing the master as a test like you said? Are there any other ways to tell what it going to need to be altered. I don't want to just start compressing tracks or busses if I don't understand why I need to alter the dynamics if that makes sense?

Nope, not really, it just will just usually show what's wrong, be that too quiet, too harsh, too whatever. Ensure you take my comment as a personal technique that is probably down to a lot of different factors in how i work causing it to 'work' for me. I would imagine A LOT of people would tell you this is a bad idea, probably rightly so.

You've got the right attitude though - understanding why you need to alter it rather than simply deciding you have to compress something. Get your youtube on man, being able to see a compressor in action and the decisions been taken is probably more effective than my ramblings will be!

haha but I like your ramblings!

I understand what the compressors are doing and how the ratio, threshold effect things. But its more like - when I have my mix, what is going to make me think "Oh I need to compress that the dynamics aren't right" In FL Studio I can use the limiter/compressor to see how the sound looks, if it looks like its got loads of peaks in a certain sound is that when I need to alter the dynamics or is that just going to make my mix too lifeless. Hope you canhelp

[Mr 50]

I am a full on trial and error type guy and less deliberate than I wish I was (who is), but in general terms I compress for 2 reasons:

To make the sound fuller/ bigger or to bring certain characteristics out of it (which is usually a multiband comp job so that I can only change / bring out that frequency area)

To aid in making the overall mix louder (by compressing each element subtly, or a lot if needed). Note that usually the super harsh compression is usually for creative effect (except for my parallel compression group which virtually every sound gets sent to a little bit).


The other key reason is to tame peaks that are out of control that are caining your headroom

[Fletchur]

I am a full on trial and error type guy and less deliberate than I wish I was (who is), but in general terms I compress for 2 reasons:

To make the sound fuller/ bigger or to bring certain characteristics out of it (which is usually a multiband comp job so that I can only change / bring out that frequency area)

To aid in making the overall mix louder (by compressing each element subtly, or a lot if needed). Note that usually the super harsh compression is usually for creative effect (except for my parallel compression group which virtually every sound gets sent to a little bit).


The other key reason is to tame peaks that are out of control that are caining your headroom

Thanks man but why would you compress to make the mix louder, couldn't you just adjust the volume faders as your doing the same thing?

[Mr 50]

Using a compressor I can get more perceived volume without eating into my headroom. Moving the fader means the sound will peak higher.

Too much compression will give you tonnes of perceived volume (otherwise known as a high RMS) but won't have any space to breath and won't sound as good

[Fletchur]

Using a compressor I can get more perceived volume without eating into my headroom. Moving the fader means the sound will peak higher.

Too much compression will give you tonnes of perceived volume (otherwise known as a high RMS) but won't have any space to breath and won't sound as good

Ah I see now, thanks for clearing that up!