The hypocrisy of Theists

[orangeluva56]

I advise you all to watch Bill Maher. He is a genius and he's right about everything.

is this a joke

[Genevieve]

There are more things that can be as 'detrimental' to the development of "progress", religion has turned into the "scapegoat" out of all of those because it's old and no longer hip, but there are so many other dogmatic things that people turn to to justify their bullshit. Tbh, you mentioned one as a 'good modern alternative' that I believe has taken up the role and its supporters use religious reasoning to justify it (won't turn this into another thread like this, but if you're aware of my position on.. things, you know which one I'm refering to). And it killed far more people in just one century than all of religion has through out all of history.

There are religious people who deal with it rather well. In interivews with Todd Edwards, when he talks about his relationship to religion I get a way bigger smile on my face than when I hear atheists talk about their atheism. Or an economist, Bob Murphy, he's described his past and the evolution of religion in his life and he just came out and said 'well I'm religious because I need to keep me sane'. He discussed religion's roll in how it was used to both oppress and OPPOSE oppression with a very open mind and was rather frank about it.

Religion is an idea and any idea can inspire good and bad things. Even ideas like fascism can inspire good things, not by putting it into practice, but by thinking about its their real world application and doing the OPPOSITE with it.

When an 'idea' attains sole monopolistic power. When the idea itself is the justification for the idea and it is used an an oppressive tool to subjugate people, then alarms needs to go off.

[titchbit]

No. Bill Maher is a fucking boss. If I could meet anyone in the world, it would be Bill Maher. Maybe it's a slight exaggeration to say he's right about everything, but.........

Oh, wait, you're from Georgia. Let me guess, Maher offends you? You prefer Bill O'Reilly?

No offense to Georgians or anything....

[Phigure]

There are more things that can be as 'detrimental' to the development of "progress", religion has turned into the "scapegoat" out of all of those because it's old and no longer hip, but there are so many other dogmatic things that people turn to to justify their bullshit. Tbh, you mentioned one as a 'good modern alternative' that I believe has taken up the role and its supporters use religious reasoning to justify it (won't turn this into another thread like this, but if you're aware of my position on.. things, you know which one I'm refering to). And it killed far more people in just one century than all of religion has through out all of history.

There are religious people who deal with it rather well. In interivews with Todd Edwards, when he talks about his relationship to religion I get a way bigger smile on my face than when I hear atheists talk about their atheism. Or an economist, Bob Murphy, he's described his past and the evolution of religion in his life and he just came out and said 'well I'm religious because I need to keep me sane'. He discussed religion's roll in how it was used to both oppress and OPPOSE oppression with a very open mind and was rather frank about it.

Religion is an idea and any idea can inspire good and bad things. Even ideas like fascism can inspire good things, not by putting it into practice, but by thinking about its their real world application and doing the OPPOSITE with it.

When an 'idea' attains sole monopolistic power. When the idea itself is the justification for the idea and it is used an an oppressive tool to subjugate people, then alarms needs to go off.

sure there are things that are more detrimental, but that doesn't mean that it's not. 99% sure which one you're referring to, but like religion, it's something that can be used to good and bad things, but ultimately i think the net benefit is much much higher than when it comes to religion.

also by "religion", i'm mostly just referring to organized, dogmatic religions like the abrahamic religions

i'm not at all saying that that religion is entirely harmful, and that was sort of the point of my post actually. the reason it's "old and no longer hip" is like i said, because i believe that all its useful functions have been supplanted by superior institutions. it still does a lot of good things for a lot of people, but those "good things" are not / no longer exclusively available from religious belief. but it also does some really shitty things to a massive amount of people, to the point that the net effect of religion is IMO negative. why keep it around when it can be replaced by less harmful things?


of course that's a moot point anyways, since like i said in my last post, it's not really something you can do much about anyways. it's a natural process. but it seems to me like it's slowly, but surely, being obsoleted

also fwiw i agree entirely with the latter parts of your post.

[titchbit]

sure there are things that are more detrimental, but that doesn't mean that it's not. 99% sure which one you're referring to, but like religion, it's something that can be used to good and bad things, but ultimately i think the net benefit is much much higher than when it comes to religion.

also by "religion", i'm mostly just referring to organized, dogmatic religions like the abrahamic religions

i'm not at all saying that that religion is entirely harmful, and that was sort of the point of my post actually. the reason it's "old and no longer hip" is like i said, because i believe that all its useful functions have been supplanted by superior institutions. it still does a lot of good things for a lot of people, but those "good things" are not / no longer exclusively available from religious belief. but it also does some really shitty things to a massive amount of people, to the point that the net effect of religion is IMO negative. why keep it around when it can be replaced by less harmful things?


of course that's a moot point anyways, since like i said in my last post, it's not really something you can do much about anyways. it's a natural process. but it seems to me like it's slowly, but surely, being obsoleted

also fwiw i agree entirely with the latter parts of your post.

I agree with everything you just said. Religion was once necessary. For instance, it was pretty useful when it told people not to eat certain meats which were poisonous at the time without modern culinary innovations, and it was pretty useful when it said to banish people with certain visible skin conditions (cause they were contagious). But as Phigure said, science and other institutions fulfill this role much more effectively and efficiently.

And I think religion is dying out pretty fast actually. Current polls say atheists are about 20% of the population - but keep in mind that's talking about adults. I'm a young adult, and I personally know very few religious people under the age of 25. I bet in 25 years, polls will show atheists at well over 50%, probably around 60-70%.

And most of these "theists" that respond to these polls are not truly religious (in the West at least). Most only go to church on christmas and easter and don't practice their faith at all. Jewish people actually care about being Jewish. They take it seriously. Judaism is such a strong religion, most people mistake it for a race! And Islam is obviously a very strong religion, strong enough to persuade thousands of people to join terrorist organizations. But your average Christian has never even picked up a bible!

[Phigure]

And most of these "theists" that respond to these polls are not truly religious (in the West at least). Most only go to church on christmas and easter and don't practice their faith at all. Jewish people actually care about being Jewish. They take it seriously. Judaism is such a strong religion, most people mistake it for a race! And Islam is obviously a very strong religion, strong enough to persuade thousands of people to join terrorist organizations. But your average Christian has never even picked up a bible!

stupid generalizations

[titchbit]

And most of these "theists" that respond to these polls are not truly religious (in the West at least). Most only go to church on christmas and easter and don't practice their faith at all. Jewish people actually care about being Jewish. They take it seriously. Judaism is such a strong religion, most people mistake it for a race! And Islam is obviously a very strong religion, strong enough to persuade thousands of people to join terrorist organizations. But your average Christian has never even picked up a bible!

stupid generalizations

"Most" not all. And please do not mistake that as generalizing all Muslims as being terrorists. That could not be further from my message.

[Phigure]

still dumb generalizations regardless of anything to do with islam and terrorism. do you think you're capable of peering into the minds of every one of these people and knowing whether or not they "truly believe"? are you some sort of omnipotent being who can see whether or not they've really ever "picked up a bible"?

from anecdotal evidence alone, i can tell you that's wrong. i know plenty of jewish or muslim people who don't take their religions very seriously.

also people don't "mistake judiasm for a race": jewish ethnicity is very much a thing and is backed up by DNA testing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_et ... ies_of_DNA

[EliteLennon117]

tbh religion is a pretty big detriment to further advancement of human society, but it was somewhat of an inevitable step in our history.

of course people were going to try and explain the nature of existence, the world, nature, etc before we actually had the capacity to do so accurately, and for a long time, it did fulfill a meaningful purpose in that regard, as well as providing some sort of a moral code and various social functions. in those past times, the various benefits outweighed the negatives that religion tends to bring about (eg, stuff listed in that bill maher vid)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution ... _religions

but now, in the 21st century, those roles can be much better fulfilled by things like science, government, law, hospitals, etc. and that's why you see more and more people nowadays identifying as atheists. having a bitch fit like the OP and people like him is completely unproductive. you can't expect the entire world to change their beliefs overnight. it's a gradual process.

Bit of an off topic question, but would you consider the wikipedia articles about physics to be accurate? For a basic understanding of the concepts of course.

[neonmansion]

Just to put another 2 cents in the pot here.

Religion is ridiculous. The one that everyone seems to believe in my country is that God sacrificed himself to himself to save us from... himself. On the other side of the world they don't think that. They think an arch angel delivered a message to a bronze age military leader who subsequently ascended to heaven on a horse.

I'm sorry to say this to the believers but I think that thats a knock down argument. I mean CMON. "CMON" is the be all argument in my opinion. God had a son??? Flying horses??

CMON!!!??? really?

[BonerJams04]

no one cares at all about your opinion

[Phigure]

tbh religion is a pretty big detriment to further advancement of human society, but it was somewhat of an inevitable step in our history.

of course people were going to try and explain the nature of existence, the world, nature, etc before we actually had the capacity to do so accurately, and for a long time, it did fulfill a meaningful purpose in that regard, as well as providing some sort of a moral code and various social functions. in those past times, the various benefits outweighed the negatives that religion tends to bring about (eg, stuff listed in that bill maher vid)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution ... _religions

but now, in the 21st century, those roles can be much better fulfilled by things like science, government, law, hospitals, etc. and that's why you see more and more people nowadays identifying as atheists. having a bitch fit like the OP and people like him is completely unproductive. you can't expect the entire world to change their beliefs overnight. it's a gradual process.

Bit of an off topic question, but would you consider the wikipedia articles about physics to be accurate? For a basic understanding of the concepts of course.

yes most of em are pretty great. they don't really go into detail all that much but they're a nice comprehensive overview of the topics

[EliteLennon117]

Just to put another 2 cents in the pot here.

Religion is ridiculous. The one that everyone seems to believe in my country is that God sacrificed himself to himself to save us from... himself. On the other side of the world they don't think that. They think an arch angel delivered a message to a bronze age military leader who subsequently ascended to heaven on a horse.

I'm sorry to say this to the believers but I think that thats a knock down argument. I mean CMON. "CMON" is the be all argument in my opinion. God had a son??? Flying horses??

CMON!!!??? really?

uh muhammad lived 1400 years ago not in the bronze age. also militant atheism is no better than militant religion. find something constructive to do with your life other than hating.

[kidshuffle]

i bet OP is under 21

[titchbit]

still dumb generalizations regardless of anything to do with islam and terrorism. do you think you're capable of peering into the minds of every one of these people and knowing whether or not they "truly believe"? are you some sort of omnipotent being who can see whether or not they've really ever "picked up a bible"?

from anecdotal evidence alone, i can tell you that's wrong. i know plenty of jewish or muslim people who don't take their religions very seriously.

They're not generalizations though. They're merely tendencies. Yes, it is only my opinion. I did not link to a study or anything. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. So if you disagree, that's fine. But it's based on my experience growing up in suburban America and being confirmed and now being an ex-Catholic all the observations I made along the way. No, I do not think I'm omnipotent or anything like that. Not sure why you'd think that. But I can tell you that I know many people who would report themselves as a "Christian" in a poll, but have personally told me they don't believe in god.

I'm sure there are plenty of people from every religion that don't take it seriously, but I am of the opinion that, of the three Abrahamic religions, Muslims are most likely to take their religion seriously, followed by Jews, followed by Christians. Yes there will always be exceptions, but I'm only talking about a tendency here. I never spoke in cut-and-dry, black-and-white, 100%-0% terms. Just tendencies. Like I said, this is only my opinion. It's absolutely fine if you or anyone else disagrees.

also people don't "mistake judiasm for a race": jewish ethnicity is very much a thing and is backed up by DNA testing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_et ... ies_of_DNA

That doesn't make Judaism a race. I also believe that race is a social construct, so....

[neonmansion]

uh muhammad lived 1400 years ago not in the bronze age. also militant atheism is no better than militant religion. find something constructive to do with your life other than hating.

I KNEW that I'd be corrected on the Bronze Age thing by some over reactive turd. I don't really care about nailing down the bronze/iron age distinction in a dubstep forum. IT WAS A LONG FUCKING TIME AGO. THEY WERE VERY IGNORANT. That was the point. That there is no rational reason to think that they had so much more wisdom about the Universe then educated scientists milleniums later.

And of course Atheism is the belief that a claim (theism) is not true. So your statement that "militant" atheism is just as bad as militant religion is not only ridiculous but fundamentally nonsensical.

And I do constructive things with my life. One of them is standing up against the idiocracy of religion whenever an opportunity presents itself.

Good day!

[Terpit]

I bet you have a fedora

[BonerJams04]

your so enlightened m8
plz head back to production forum
no one gives a fuck about what you think

@terpit

[titchbit]

militant atheism is bad but the vast, vast majority of atheists are NOT militant atheists. that term was popularized by theists so that they can say "well the atheists are just as bad and irrational as us!"



couldn't have said it better myself!!

[BonerJams04]

no ones saying every atheist is militant
but OP definitely is.