Why Has There Never Been A British Revolution?

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alphacat
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Why Has There Never Been A British Revolution?

Post by alphacat » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:01 pm

Thought it was a bit funny this was in the Guardian, but it did stoke the question. -q-
guardian wrote:
Bring on a British revolution – it's long overdue
We've never managed more than a few riots – we need something more radical

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Stephen Hester was given a £6m bonus simply for collecting bank charges

The name of my incomparable and sclerotic history teacher was simply McGuire, though later on we discovered that he also had a first name.

I always had the impression that his favourite periods of history were those marked by popular upheaval, because he seemed to take an almost lascivious pleasure in describing the casual brutalities that preceded and followed events such as the Russian and French revolutions.

When he eventually reached the point where the ancien regimes in these countries fell, McGuire was at his disdainful best. Thus, beheadings and eviscerations were always delivered with an insouciant irony that made the great moments he described all the more chilling.

At least the Russians and the French got there in the end. In Britain, as we learned from McGuire's sulphurous sarcasm, all we managed were a few unco-ordinated riots and querulous behaviour at places such as Spa Fields, Bristol and Manchester. And, as the historian John E Archer has pointed out, many of these disturbances were carried out by people who wanted to maintain the status quo, not to overthrow it.

The social evils prevalent in Britain in the 80 years or so before the Great Reform Act in 1832 were universal: no right to vote, seemingly endless overseas adventures purely for the enrichment of the aristocracy, cruel and unusual punishments for minor offences, poor wages, widespread disease and low mortality rates. All of this during a period when Britain was the pre-eminent geopolitical force in the world and the Industrial Revolution was making lots of factory owners obscenely rich.

Historians in Russia and France, and later in Spain, Portugal and Italy, can all fill their boots as they analyse and interpret the momentous revolutions and civil wars that changed the course of history in their countries. Britain's historians, meanwhile, can only quarrel among themselves, in their brandy-soaked scrofulousness, about the level of danger posed by various types of village disturbances.

The real questions that need to be answered are these: why has there never been a proper revolution in Britain? Why, effectively, did Britain's poor simply hold up Father Ted placards saying: "Down with this sort of thing"?

I have my theory about this. Britain, the world's most belligerent country, was in a state of almost constant warfare in the 18th and 19th centuries. If we didn't have our own wars to fight, we would soon find someone else's war in which to get stuck in. Thus, there was simply no time for the working class to get properly organised. To fight a war, you need money and poor people. Britain always had an abundance of both. The money came from increased taxation of the poor who saw a war as an opportunity for a few years of guaranteed bed, board and wages, which was more than they could count on in Britain.

Some of us are asking the same questions of ourselves in 2013: why, in the face of so much inequality, corporate dishonesty, police brutality and political corruption, do we simply grumble and stage good-natured and orderly marches, with multigrain sandwiches and infants in prams? Why do we continue to be bought off with endless royal jubilees, worthless Olympiads and the creeping militarisation of a country whose soldiers are treated like heroes for fighting wars against developing world nations?

More events last week – some big and national, some small and local – have illustrated how deep the roots of social inequality go in this country. Stephen Hester, the chief executive of RBS, was the latest banker to walk away with a financial package massively in excess of what he achieved. In effect, this chap was given a £6m bonus simply for collecting those insidious and corrupt bank charges the government allows them to impose.

While this was being announced, the Institute for Fiscal Studies told us that British workers have endured pay cuts of around 6% in the last five years. This is a bigger salary reduction than in any previous five-year period and shows that as the strength of trade unionism has declined, management militancy has increased.

While Vodafone, Google, Rangers FC and hundreds of other major companies have been allowed to deprive the exchequer of billions in tax revenues, the Westminster government remains focused on doing what the Conservatives have been doing for hundreds of years: penalising the poor.

In 21st-century Scotland, increasing numbers of food banks are being established. That's right; there are still thousands of people who cannot afford to feed both themselves and their children and the Scottish government last week revealed that 150,000 Scots children are living in poverty.

Many of those who are seeking their battered tins of spaghetti hoops or bashed packets of pasta are not the feckless drug- and alcohol-addicted workshy of popular rightwing myth. According to one charity organiser in Glasgow's East End I talked to last week, these are people who often have to accept scandalously low-paid work simply because they don't want to take benefits. In the winter, they will be penalised again when the cartelism of the energy companies kicks in and they can only afford to heat one room in their home.

Not long ago, these people would have been able to turn to the Labour party and the trade unions to fight their corner, but those days are long gone. These days, strike action is confined to boutique one-day stoppages. If people begin to make rude messages with their fingers or snarl at the police who will outnumber them two to one, then they will be kettled and jostled by our state-licensed knuckle-draggers.

The Labour party, meanwhile, has been kidnapped by a shower of unprincipled Oxbridge careerists and their utterly useless Scottish concubines.

The real wonder of the 2011 riots in England and Wales isn't that they happened at all but that there weren't more of them, that they didn't last longer and that there was so little violence. A British revolution is long, long overdue … but perhaps we simply don't deserve one.

And the very fist comment was also pretty spot on IMO:
As Steinbeck said; “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”
Same goes for Britain and why there won't be a revolution.

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Re: Why Has There Never Been A British Revolution?

Post by Genevieve » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:10 pm

It's because despite all the fucking shit we have to take in the west, we still have the most comfortable lives ever. Ordeals like getting a tooth pulled or getting fresh fruit is nothing. Half of your bread is stale? Just get another one at the 24 hour shop next doors. Bring home some booze and a pack of cigs while you're at it.

We're no doubt being aggressively exploited, but most our 'working class' is living a lifestyle royalty couldn't afford 200 years ago. So from day to day, it sure doesn't _feel_ like we're being exploited.
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Re: Why Has There Never Been A British Revolution?

Post by hugh » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:19 pm

Genevieve wrote:It's because despite all the fucking shit we have to take in the west, we still have the most comfortable lives ever. Ordeals like getting a tooth pulled or getting fresh fruit is nothing. Half of your bread is stale? Just get another one at the 24 hour shop next doors. Bring home some booze and a pack of cigs while you're at it.

We're no doubt being aggressively exploited, but most our 'working class' is living a lifestyle royalty couldn't afford 200 years ago. So from day to day, it sure doesn't _feel_ like we're being exploited.
It's an interesting view point for sure, I tend to think that all this wealth creation of the past couple of centuries has made life better for everyone across the scale. The problem lies with relative wealth. The haves have so much more than the have-nots with comparison to ages past. Relative wealth is where power lies, the only thing I don't really understand, and where the conspiracies unravel in my eyes, is what the goal is for all this shifting relative wealth. It is in nobody's interest to have nine tenths of the population living in poverty as that creates more problems and reduces overall wealth creation....
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Re: Why Has There Never Been A British Revolution?

Post by garethom » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:22 pm

i just can't be arsed

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Re: Why Has There Never Been A British Revolution?

Post by Genevieve » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:32 pm

hugh wrote:
Genevieve wrote:It's because despite all the fucking shit we have to take in the west, we still have the most comfortable lives ever. Ordeals like getting a tooth pulled or getting fresh fruit is nothing. Half of your bread is stale? Just get another one at the 24 hour shop next doors. Bring home some booze and a pack of cigs while you're at it.

We're no doubt being aggressively exploited, but most our 'working class' is living a lifestyle royalty couldn't afford 200 years ago. So from day to day, it sure doesn't _feel_ like we're being exploited.
It's an interesting view point for sure, I tend to think that all this wealth creation of the past couple of centuries has made life better for everyone across the scale. The problem lies with relative wealth. The haves have so much more than the have-nots with comparison to ages past. Relative wealth is where power lies, the only thing I don't really understand, and where the conspiracies unravel in my eyes, is what the goal is for all this shifting relative wealth. It is in nobody's interest to have nine tenths of the population living in poverty as that creates more problems and reduces overall wealth creation....
Yep, on point.

I don't think people aren't the greatest at putting themselves in other people's shoes. We basically live like royalty, but there's this super-mega royalty out there that has even more wealth than we can even fathom, yet when we look at them, do we really see different people? They're as clean, as 'taken care of' as we are and we can all afford clothing and jewelrely that looks like theirs. And look at how many people are using the same products they are daily? Beats by Dre, Apple computers, etc. So even if the difference is there, it's not that apparent. I would imagine a wealthy man strolling through London would be much more obvious during the Victorian era than now.

The conspiracy theorist in me believes this is all very calculated as well. Having the upper classes appear more 'approachable' to the working class. Creates this false idea that there's really not much of a difference.

It's true though. Creating a giant, growing class, that has no money to spend isn't economically viable. But the lack of economic viability is what a lot of the upper classes depend on.
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Re: Why Has There Never Been A British Revolution?

Post by wolf89 » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:36 pm

We're too polite/lazy

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Re: Why Has There Never Been A British Revolution?

Post by karmacazee » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:37 pm

Seriously? English history is rife with revolution - political, social, religious and even industrial!

UK been revolting since before some countries even officially existed!

These days though life here is just tolerant enough, and British people are either too reserved, stupid or downtrodden to challenge the status quo. Shit, people in this country don't even look each other in the eye when conversing.
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Re: Why Has There Never Been A British Revolution?

Post by DRTY » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:38 pm

fuck that, could get my car set on fire or something. I'll throw heavy objects at anyone I see revolving

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Re: Why Has There Never Been A British Revolution?

Post by Muncey » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:59 pm

garethom wrote:i just can't be arsed
Pretty much the answer. The Government and banks can fuck us all they like, if its a choice between getting up and rioting/protesting and watching Jeremy Kyle the general public will go for the latter.

Comfortable life has made people lazy, now its getting a little bit harder and there are issues people don't know what to do anymore.. thats why the closest to a revolution we'll get to is chavs looting JD.

Big up Turkey, if that was us we'd have given up before it had even started.

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Re: Why Has There Never Been A British Revolution?

Post by esfandyar » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:20 pm

Genevieve wrote:It's because despite all the fucking shit we have to take in the west, we still have the most comfortable lives ever.
i know a lot of poor people who have some really really shitty lives, and they hold 3 jobs to try to provide for themselves and their families. lots of them are people of color, mainly indigenous folks here in arizona. lots of poor mexican people live here too. they are becoming more and more organized by the day.. resulting in more insurrectionary acts that happen in bursts, but to organize an entire population.. yeah a lot of people who would be considered working class are too busy looking at their iphone to really give a fuck about making changes, or caring about working the extra time to make ends meet. most dont even understand the idea or critiques of what work is and why its so detrimental for human happiness (imo).

what the capitalists across america has done over these last few decades is astounding. just to use as a recent example, many large corporations, after 2008 with the housing market crashing, resulted in tons of layoffs across the country within a variety of skill sets, and in essence, every worker still with a job had an increase in workload with the same amount of pay, and all the ceos got multi-million, some even billion dollar profits in years where we were and still are facing economic crisis--but no revolution came from it. this entire nsa ordeal happening.. no revolution from that either. im wondering what needs to happen to make shit crack.. i just hope its not something that get started by a fascist movement..
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Re: Why Has There Never Been A British Revolution?

Post by Gewze » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:34 pm

It's coming

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Re: Why Has There Never Been A British Revolution?

Post by orangeluva56 » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:50 pm

yall dont got no guns
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Re: Why Has There Never Been A British Revolution?

Post by nousd » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:59 pm

cos everybody that tried to was sent here
(incl Scots, Irish, Yorkeshiremen, Tolpuddle martyrs etc.)
or the US or executed

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Re: Why Has There Never Been A British Revolution?

Post by esfandyar » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:26 pm

orangeluva56 wrote:yall dont got no guns
you would be surprised.. lots of people from the us here including myself that are armed, trained, some are military or have been military trained ;-)
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Re: Why Has There Never Been A British Revolution?

Post by cloquet » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:28 pm

I think it's partly because they're scared - there's a huge amount of stuff I disagree with but I'm not exactly itching to have my head caved in by some thug in a uniform or to be locked up.

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Re: Why Has There Never Been A British Revolution?

Post by NiGHTS_24 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:32 am

cloquet wrote:I think it's partly because they're scared - there's a huge amount of stuff I disagree with but I'm not exactly itching to have my head caved in by some thug in a uniform or to be locked up.
I think that's the generally feeling. Also the Arab spring revolutions were people rebelling against horrible and evil dictatorship's. Plus people's live's are busy ,if you've got a family and struggling , you haven't really got any time to think about the government shit on you 24/7, you just sort of accept it :(

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Re: Why Has There Never Been A British Revolution?

Post by alphacat » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:30 am

As Steinbeck said; “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”
Same goes for Britain and why there won't be a revolution.
Put more succinctly/Americanly:
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Re: Why Has There Never Been A British Revolution?

Post by wolf89 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:58 am

America especially has that though. I mean in England there is often an attitude of demonizing the very rich among the working class where as Americans seem to be constantly attempting to be rich/appear rich. Displayed most blatantly by any gangster rap type artist who starts making money.

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Re: Why Has There Never Been A British Revolution?

Post by bennyfroobs » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:18 am

first step should be incinerating the hou se of lords. bunch of fat rich homophobic slobs
is that terrorism or revolution?

turkey showing people how its done right now though. hope their protesting turns into full blown revolutiuon. but peaceful one :[. its grim seeing so many photographs of peaceful protesters whove been battered by the pigs
didnt greece or somewhere have a pretty much silent revolution? a peaceful one adn the shit government was overtrhown but it wasnt in our media cos obv that would inspire people to do the same. i forget which country it was, it was not long after credit crunch and it was in europe,i think. i might be wrong. my memory is real shit
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Re: Why Has There Never Been A British Revolution?

Post by wolf89 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:21 am

bennyfroobs wrote:first step should be incinerating the hou se of lords. bunch of fat rich homophobic slobs
Well they aren't very good at being homophobic then are they?

"Peers have voted by more than two to one to back government plans for same-sex marriages in England and Wales."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22764954

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