How do you create your complex phrases?

TheReptilianElite · Post by **TheReptilianElite** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:29 am

I thought it would be fun to see all the different techniques when creating melodies/bass lines. A la complex ones. I guess the best way to describe it would be different sounds that seem to replace one another in a melodic phrasing. Whether its your Skrillex "bangarang" bass line or Knife Party "bonfire" insanity.

Ill start: resample! Split frequencies! Go nuts with bit crushing/sausage phattener/ohmacide! Try to cut away all the fat when playing with spliced resamples (unnecessary notes) which in turn leaves more room for other synth sounds(notes to be played)! Sub bass to keep the movement flowing (as to not lose continuity)!

Question part II:
Do you guys like using instrument racks to switch from instrument to instrument when creating complex lines?

Have fun!

TheReptilianElite · Post by **TheReptilianElite** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:31 am

I also forgot to mention, for those who want to get crazier: automation!!!!! Go nuts with LFOs, rates, waveforms, phasing, hi-pass / lo-pass, etc.

Coolschmid · Post by **Coolschmid** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:31 am

What exactly do you want people to say here? People usually just make the song. Instrument racks are for easy saving and control over layering things and effects chains, I don't see why people would use them for switching sounds

TheReptilianElite · Post by **TheReptilianElite** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:39 am

Why not?! Adding multiple synths/instruments to a rack can be awesome. Just macro control what sounds you want to switch from when you want them to switch.

For example. I want a massive yoi bass for the first bar, hit my midi mapped macro for the next synth to take the next bar at a fast rate 1/32 of a growl. Etc.

I'm basically trying to see how people make their (I hate to use this term) but complextro.

TheReptilianElite · Post by **TheReptilianElite** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:42 am

Also, I know most of these guys use many sounds per phrase. If you listen to Knife Party "bonfire" during the chorus (?) there is a lot of different sounds happening which the sub bass directly follows. Because they probably simplified by switching from different synth sound to the next then copy/pasting the midi nots to their sub bass track. Seems logical. I could also be....VERY, VERY WRONG

TheReptilianElite · Post by **TheReptilianElite** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:45 am

I guess also how do you get the continuity to flow when going from synth to synth. As in 1 synth for note A, and second sound for note B.

Best example that everyone knows is something like Skrillex "bangarang" when he goes in hard (roughly 30 seconds in to the song)

Theo Void · Post by **Theo Void** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:42 am

I like to choose the sounds I will use first. Including : samples, synth patches, field recordings, etc. I then bounce the all down to audio and put them in a track in Ableton, so they're all there, in a row. Then, I go over to arrangement view and start experimenting. Sometimes I'll write a synth line, maybe 8 bars, and then proceed to replace pieces of it with the other sounds I've collected. I transpose and tune as I go. I also use a basic beat to write with.

I manually chop the samples I've made and even to the point where they're so tiny that I can create my own stutter effects. I usually end up w/ about 8 tracks or so. When I make an 8 bar loop w/ all these tracks I then bounce it all down to 1 audio file (clip.) Then, I take that clip and automate it w/ effects, maybe add some saturation to the whole thing. Sometimes, for variation I slice to MIDI so I can play it.

This usually ends up being the main, peak of the song so then I just build around it. I LOVE working this way and I get so lost in it sometimes.

Here's a track I made this way. I've been using this technique for awhile now. I LOVE IT!!

https://soundcloud.com/theovoid/dead-movie-stars

SunkLo · Post by **SunkLo** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:47 am

TheReptilianElite wrote:I guess also how do you get the continuity to flow when going from synth to synth.

You don't really. That's why it sounds kinda pooey.

I'm trying to picture a bunch of musicians running and off the stage playing one note each. Guitarists plugging in at lightning speed and then unplugging so the next guy can plug in his drill-mounted piezo pickup. Horn players bumping into each other, vocalists getting wrapped up in mic cords.

I imagine by the sound of it, that producers making this kind of stuff just resample a lot and play short phrases with their sampler. You could gather a bunch of sampled sounds and figure out the pitch of all of them and then map them to a keyboard in your sampler. Then just play it as if it were a regular (albeit very disjunct) piano.

Alternately you can just have your midi track routed to multiple instrument busses and solo or mute the sends to switch between synth sounds. Then your midi's all in once place instead of having one note per clip over a hundred different tracks.

Benji · Post by **Benji** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:33 am

SunkLo wrote:Alternately you can just have your midi track routed to multiple instrument busses and solo or mute the sends to switch between synth sounds. Then your midi's all in once place instead of having one note per clip over a hundred different tracks.

Mine are definitely the latter, it looks a bit of a mess but it sounds the same I suppose

AcidRat · Post by **AcidRat** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:18 pm

I'm new at making this style of music, but what I've been doing so far is just picking out all my sounds and then just fitting them together like a puzzle. I'm still nowhere near to getting good at it, but its a start for me anyways

Crimsonghost · Post by **Crimsonghost** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:40 pm

When I write them I usually start with 1 patch and build others on it to complement. I think my most recent track is 5 bass patches, a chord patch, and lead patch. I try to keep everything in key and following some sort of progression while sprinkling in notes played in higher octaves to add some variety. And every bass patch usually has some automation, mostly moving EQ. I always work with midi so it makes it easier to adjust things on the fly to better fit the song.

TheReptilianElite · Post by **TheReptilianElite** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:40 pm

Crimsonghost- you are def on the exact right path. That's what I've been doing to the "T". Results have been leaps and bounds!

GenericNameHere · Post by **GenericNameHere** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:47 pm

Hell ... you guys are way ahead of me. All I do is record myself trying to make a beat with my mouth, load the file in Edison, and set about creating something like it. I find this approach to be the most efficient, as I then have a goal in mind, and I won't be randomly selecting presets, hoping something works.

Also, Bonfire has at most five patches - I counted four, but I'm half asleep - going per phrase in the chorus. There's the mid-range pitched dropped synth, the formanty synth, the growly bass, and also the yoi-bass. So the song isn't "complex," it just has a lot of energy, and it's been streamlined, know what I'm saying?

Dubstep isall about the flow really, and improvising, I feel captures that flow ... I don't know if it's just me.

outdropt · Post by **outdropt** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:40 pm

I was for using instrument racks but there are so many limitations when transitioning between sounds.

When a note is triggered, all notes are triggered.

You can create a macro to scroll through on/off's for each sound, but then you are killing CPU because each sound is still being processed. If you automate between the on/offs in the middle of a note then you will miss some of the envelopes in the patch

Another way of automating between sounds in an instrument rack is with chains. You can fade between sounds or abruptly stop and start them in the chain editor. But if you try to switch to a different sound before a new midi note is triggered the sound will not play.

You can trigger an instrument based on the note that is played, but that restricts each sound to a section on the keyboard.

Best bet is automating with velocity but if you use velocity to adjust other perimeters in each individual patch.... you see where I'm going. Ill look for some older posts i have on this, i thought it was a great idea at first too but these chains are just to restrictive. haha get it

Genevieve · Post by **Genevieve** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:47 pm

She sold sea shells by the sea shore!

mtl6 · Post by **mtl6** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:12 am

complex phrases? just cut and paste midi clips where ever you want across your daw.... go crazy

Benji · Post by **Benji** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:27 pm

mtl6 wrote:complex phrases? just cut and paste midi clips where ever you want across your daw.... go crazy

Wat

mtl6 · Post by **mtl6** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:00 pm

Benji wrote:
mtl6 wrote:complex phrases? just cut and paste midi clips where ever you want across your daw.... go crazy
Wat

lol well for example sometimes copying, let's say, a hi hat pattern into a bass track creates a new groove or vice versa. the idea is that daws give you ultimate freedom to be creative.

Artie_Fufkin · Post by **Artie_Fufkin** » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:54 am

TheReptilianElite wrote:I guess also how do you get the continuity to flow when going from synth to synth.

You could try bussing them all together onto a track and processing them all with the same effect(s). Maybe a subtle reverb to make them sound like they're in the same space?
Or you could try making a mega patch that can be modulated in many different ways to get a lot of different sounds out of it. I've always liked morphing sounds where you can tell it's all derived from one main sound(like reeses in neurofunk).
And having all the notes in the same key can help with continuity.

I thought this thread was gonna be about how to come up with phrases in odd time signatures (7/8, 5/8) that sound natural.

__________ · Post by **__________** » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:54 am

About 50% of the tunes I build go through different versions - I'll completely change the bass and melody sounds and notes until I hit an interesting new vibe.
Once I've done 5 or so different versions I will pick my favourite, develop it then that will be the finished tune.
To do a 'complex phrase' I'd just not pick a favourite, and switch between those 5 versions at random.

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