My DAW is better than yours! (Friendly DAW Wars debate)

[futures_untold]

The Ultimate Truth About Life:

- PCs are better than Macs

- Android is better than iOS

- England is better than everyone (especially the U.S.)

- Reaper is better than all other DAWs.

[Add9]

So your a logic hater because it doesn't have max and a few other things?I thought a daw was for creating music which logic is very competent at.
Rewire has never really worked in logic even when i was using pro7 it was a pain but again for me it has enough.
Also yeah i agree that apple isn't the best company for quick updates and Logic pretty much bares the brunt of this but pretty sure when x does finally arrive the haters gonna be silenced just like when pro8 was released.

What about rewire doesn't work in logic? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what u mean but I rewire reason into logic all the time, it couldn't be simpler

[Brothulhu]

- England is better than everyone (especially the U.S.)

[lloydy]

So your a logic hater because it doesn't have max and a few other things?I thought a daw was for creating music which logic is very competent at.
Rewire has never really worked in logic even when i was using pro7 it was a pain but again for me it has enough.
Also yeah i agree that apple isn't the best company for quick updates and Logic pretty much bares the brunt of this but pretty sure when x does finally arrive the haters gonna be silenced just like when pro8 was released.

What about rewire doesn't work in logic? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what u mean but I rewire reason into logic all the time, it couldn't be simpler

Ok maybe i should have been more detailed,ever since pro7 i have had sync issues between rewire and logic.Audio stays in sync but for some reason the play bars do not follow each other.Don't know if this has been fixed yet as i haven't used rewire for some time but it used to bug the shit out of me when using it so rarely rewired.
I think it could have been a graphics problem because the audio would always be in sync but it was one bug.
Rewire in pro8 was a lot buggier,it would crash here and there too + the sync issues.

[ehbes]

The Ultimate Truth About Life:

- PCs are better than Macs

- Android is better than iOS

- England is better than everyone (especially the U.S.)

- Reaper is better than all other DAWs.

how could betray reason like that

[Add9]

Ok maybe i should have been more detailed,ever since pro7 i have had sync issues between rewire and logic.Audio stays in sync but for some reason the play bars do not follow each other.Don't know if this has been fixed yet as i haven't used rewire for some time but it used to bug the shit out of me when using it so rarely rewired.
I think it could have been a graphics problem because the audio would always be in sync but it was one bug.
Rewire in pro8 was a lot buggier,it would crash here and there too + the sync issues.

Oh ok, I haven't noticed that but I have pro 9 so maybe they improved it.

[RmoniK]

I've used Ableton Live for a while now, and while i'm getting comfortable with the work flow, there's a shitload of things i wish it did differently.

- Automation: the only way to sync automation points to the grid is by using the pencil tool first, draw in random blocks and then dragging those around and deleting the points you don't need. How hard is it really to implement automation that sync to the grid when you draw it in normally? it fucking pisses me off. Also, pitch bend in the midi clip is horribly implemented. For example, when you have a clip with a pitch bend that doesn't end in zero, and then a clip without pitch bend, you actually have to put a dot at 0 for the second clip, else it continues where the previous pitch bend left off. Even though the line says it's already at zero.

- Freezing/Flattening: While i am a huge fan of Ableton's freeze/flatten function, there are some things that could be done differently. Firstly, why can't we bounce clips that have sidechain compressors/gates/anything in it? I get how it can't know what input to use, but there should be an option to freeze a track with only the information inside the arrangement window, like, you know, every other DAW in existence. People tell me to just record it using resampling, but the point is not to have it in audio, it's because my CPU can't keep up with all the VSTs i use. In logic this was no problem, i just froze my tracks. Now, using sidechain compressors on a lot of my tracks, i keep struggling with CPU and i'm not gonna start sacrificing sidechain freedom just because ableton is a little bitch about this. So how am i supposed to produce like this then? If someone has an (efficient) solution, let me know.

- Groove pool: I'm not sure what exactly ableton's groove pool does when changing notes to a groove, but you'd think when you use a simple swung 16th beat as a source, that you'd get the same result when applying it on a beat with 16th notes. Somehow it always fails the timing just a little bit. Not a fan, i don't even want grooves, i just want an easy way to implement swing/shuffle/whatever it's called, like there was in reason with the regroove window. Also, since ableton's drum rack is crap and i now sequence drums in audio, there's no way to efficiently apply a groove onto a drum track, unless if i bounce it down to audio, warp it and set that clip to the groove, which is hardly efficient if you're not finished with your drum arrangement yet.

- Automatic latency compensation. I mean come on. Are they really serious? Really? They keep pushing the audio effect racks as innovative and brilliant, but if you put a compressor on one of the chains and nothing on the other, you get fucking phasing already. Also, since there's no manual delay control on there like there is on audio tracks, there's no way to really compensate for that latency. This is seriously basic, any serious DAW has had this for years, yet they fail to implement it, and then after years of anticipation, leave us with ableton live 9, which is basically a new bus compressor and some fancy graphics for the EQ, gate and compressor (and audio to midi shit that is completely unusable if it's not used on an actual solo'd instrument or vocal).

Ever since i left Reason, i had been struggling to find a new DAW that fitted my needs. Ableton seemed perfect, but the longer i use it, the more i get annoyed at little things which honestly aren't that hard to implement in a well coded piece of software.

Sorry for the ranting, i just needed to get this out of my system.

[mJAi]

so what everyone is saying is that you can save/export in Reaper for free?? Whats the licence for?

[futures_untold]

For those with a guilty conscious.

[mJAi]

For those with a guilty conscious.

So what you mean is that i can use it after the 60 day evaluation period too? with load/save/export?
Sorry for all the questions, its just that i wanna spend my $60 ONLY in extremes.

[futures_untold]

Reaper has a 30 day evaluation period after which people are asked to buy a licence.

The 'demo' is the full version of the software with all the normal features functioning fully as if the program were licensed. After the evaluation period expires, a pop up screen is shown each time the program starts asking you to buy a licence and tracking the number of days you've used the program without a licence. After you click 'ignore', the program continues to work fully including the save and export functions.

So effectively you get a fully working DAW program for free if you decide never to pay for it, the only difference being that non-paid users have to deal with a pop up screen each time they load the program.

Cockos simply have a good demo policy as they know that people who like the program will buy it and those who won't will badmouth them if they've dropped money on a program they don't then enjoy using.

Download the program, try it, if you don't like it, try Ableton Live, FL Studio or Reason.

Patrick

[SunkLo]

Download the program, try it, if you don't like it, try suicide.

[Electric_Head]

I bought reaper on principle.
I'm sure that is the Cuckos business model.

[Augment]

I've used Ableton Live for a while now, and while i'm getting comfortable with the work flow, there's a shitload of things i wish it did differently.

- Automation: the only way to sync automation points to the grid is by using the pencil tool first, draw in random blocks and then dragging those around and deleting the points you don't need. How hard is it really to implement automation that sync to the grid when you draw it in normally? it fucking pisses me off. Also, pitch bend in the midi clip is horribly implemented. For example, when you have a clip with a pitch bend that doesn't end in zero, and then a clip without pitch bend, you actually have to put a dot at 0 for the second clip, else it continues where the previous pitch bend left off. Even though the line says it's already at zero.

- Freezing/Flattening: While i am a huge fan of Ableton's freeze/flatten function, there are some things that could be done differently. Firstly, why can't we bounce clips that have sidechain compressors/gates/anything in it? I get how it can't know what input to use, but there should be an option to freeze a track with only the information inside the arrangement window, like, you know, every other DAW in existence. People tell me to just record it using resampling, but the point is not to have it in audio, it's because my CPU can't keep up with all the VSTs i use. In logic this was no problem, i just froze my tracks. Now, using sidechain compressors on a lot of my tracks, i keep struggling with CPU and i'm not gonna start sacrificing sidechain freedom just because ableton is a little bitch about this. So how am i supposed to produce like this then? If someone has an (efficient) solution, let me know.

- Groove pool: I'm not sure what exactly ableton's groove pool does when changing notes to a groove, but you'd think when you use a simple swung 16th beat as a source, that you'd get the same result when applying it on a beat with 16th notes. Somehow it always fails the timing just a little bit. Not a fan, i don't even want grooves, i just want an easy way to implement swing/shuffle/whatever it's called, like there was in reason with the regroove window. Also, since ableton's drum rack is crap and i now sequence drums in audio, there's no way to efficiently apply a groove onto a drum track, unless if i bounce it down to audio, warp it and set that clip to the groove, which is hardly efficient if you're not finished with your drum arrangement yet.

- Automatic latency compensation. I mean come on. Are they really serious? Really? They keep pushing the audio effect racks as innovative and brilliant, but if you put a compressor on one of the chains and nothing on the other, you get fucking phasing already. Also, since there's no manual delay control on there like there is on audio tracks, there's no way to really compensate for that latency. This is seriously basic, any serious DAW has had this for years, yet they fail to implement it, and then after years of anticipation, leave us with ableton live 9, which is basically a new bus compressor and some fancy graphics for the EQ, gate and compressor (and audio to midi shit that is completely unusable if it's not used on an actual solo'd instrument or vocal).

Ever since i left Reason, i had been struggling to find a new DAW that fitted my needs. Ableton seemed perfect, but the longer i use it, the more i get annoyed at little things which honestly aren't that hard to implement in a well coded piece of software.

Sorry for the ranting, i just needed to get this out of my system.

Tried FL yet?

[Gribble]

Logic Pro FTW!

[RmoniK]

I've used Ableton Live for a while now, and while i'm getting comfortable with the work flow, there's a shitload of things i wish it did differently.

- Automation: the only way to sync automation points to the grid is by using the pencil tool first, draw in random blocks and then dragging those around and deleting the points you don't need. How hard is it really to implement automation that sync to the grid when you draw it in normally? it fucking pisses me off. Also, pitch bend in the midi clip is horribly implemented. For example, when you have a clip with a pitch bend that doesn't end in zero, and then a clip without pitch bend, you actually have to put a dot at 0 for the second clip, else it continues where the previous pitch bend left off. Even though the line says it's already at zero.

- Freezing/Flattening: While i am a huge fan of Ableton's freeze/flatten function, there are some things that could be done differently. Firstly, why can't we bounce clips that have sidechain compressors/gates/anything in it? I get how it can't know what input to use, but there should be an option to freeze a track with only the information inside the arrangement window, like, you know, every other DAW in existence. People tell me to just record it using resampling, but the point is not to have it in audio, it's because my CPU can't keep up with all the VSTs i use. In logic this was no problem, i just froze my tracks. Now, using sidechain compressors on a lot of my tracks, i keep struggling with CPU and i'm not gonna start sacrificing sidechain freedom just because ableton is a little bitch about this. So how am i supposed to produce like this then? If someone has an (efficient) solution, let me know.

- Groove pool: I'm not sure what exactly ableton's groove pool does when changing notes to a groove, but you'd think when you use a simple swung 16th beat as a source, that you'd get the same result when applying it on a beat with 16th notes. Somehow it always fails the timing just a little bit. Not a fan, i don't even want grooves, i just want an easy way to implement swing/shuffle/whatever it's called, like there was in reason with the regroove window. Also, since ableton's drum rack is crap and i now sequence drums in audio, there's no way to efficiently apply a groove onto a drum track, unless if i bounce it down to audio, warp it and set that clip to the groove, which is hardly efficient if you're not finished with your drum arrangement yet.

- Automatic latency compensation. I mean come on. Are they really serious? Really? They keep pushing the audio effect racks as innovative and brilliant, but if you put a compressor on one of the chains and nothing on the other, you get fucking phasing already. Also, since there's no manual delay control on there like there is on audio tracks, there's no way to really compensate for that latency. This is seriously basic, any serious DAW has had this for years, yet they fail to implement it, and then after years of anticipation, leave us with ableton live 9, which is basically a new bus compressor and some fancy graphics for the EQ, gate and compressor (and audio to midi shit that is completely unusable if it's not used on an actual solo'd instrument or vocal).

Ever since i left Reason, i had been struggling to find a new DAW that fitted my needs. Ableton seemed perfect, but the longer i use it, the more i get annoyed at little things which honestly aren't that hard to implement in a well coded piece of software.

Sorry for the ranting, i just needed to get this out of my system.

Tried FL yet?

I have really really briefly actually, but i'm on Mac at the moment. I'm gonna be building a PC this summer however, and i'm really thrilled to try it.

[AxeD]

FL runs beautifully on Macs. Never used it myself.

[RmoniK]

FL runs beautifully on Macs. Never used it myself.

I don't really feel like installing windows on my mac since i already have limited space and wrappers such as wine are nice but they make working with vsts and core audio and drivers and midi clocks a real pain...

[ehbes]

reason is still the undisputed king

[Augment]

I've used Ableton Live for a while now, and while i'm getting comfortable with the work flow, there's a shitload of things i wish it did differently.

- Automation: the only way to sync automation points to the grid is by using the pencil tool first, draw in random blocks and then dragging those around and deleting the points you don't need. How hard is it really to implement automation that sync to the grid when you draw it in normally? it fucking pisses me off. Also, pitch bend in the midi clip is horribly implemented. For example, when you have a clip with a pitch bend that doesn't end in zero, and then a clip without pitch bend, you actually have to put a dot at 0 for the second clip, else it continues where the previous pitch bend left off. Even though the line says it's already at zero.

- Freezing/Flattening: While i am a huge fan of Ableton's freeze/flatten function, there are some things that could be done differently. Firstly, why can't we bounce clips that have sidechain compressors/gates/anything in it? I get how it can't know what input to use, but there should be an option to freeze a track with only the information inside the arrangement window, like, you know, every other DAW in existence. People tell me to just record it using resampling, but the point is not to have it in audio, it's because my CPU can't keep up with all the VSTs i use. In logic this was no problem, i just froze my tracks. Now, using sidechain compressors on a lot of my tracks, i keep struggling with CPU and i'm not gonna start sacrificing sidechain freedom just because ableton is a little bitch about this. So how am i supposed to produce like this then? If someone has an (efficient) solution, let me know.

- Groove pool: I'm not sure what exactly ableton's groove pool does when changing notes to a groove, but you'd think when you use a simple swung 16th beat as a source, that you'd get the same result when applying it on a beat with 16th notes. Somehow it always fails the timing just a little bit. Not a fan, i don't even want grooves, i just want an easy way to implement swing/shuffle/whatever it's called, like there was in reason with the regroove window. Also, since ableton's drum rack is crap and i now sequence drums in audio, there's no way to efficiently apply a groove onto a drum track, unless if i bounce it down to audio, warp it and set that clip to the groove, which is hardly efficient if you're not finished with your drum arrangement yet.

- Automatic latency compensation. I mean come on. Are they really serious? Really? They keep pushing the audio effect racks as innovative and brilliant, but if you put a compressor on one of the chains and nothing on the other, you get fucking phasing already. Also, since there's no manual delay control on there like there is on audio tracks, there's no way to really compensate for that latency. This is seriously basic, any serious DAW has had this for years, yet they fail to implement it, and then after years of anticipation, leave us with ableton live 9, which is basically a new bus compressor and some fancy graphics for the EQ, gate and compressor (and audio to midi shit that is completely unusable if it's not used on an actual solo'd instrument or vocal).

Ever since i left Reason, i had been struggling to find a new DAW that fitted my needs. Ableton seemed perfect, but the longer i use it, the more i get annoyed at little things which honestly aren't that hard to implement in a well coded piece of software.

Sorry for the ranting, i just needed to get this out of my system.

Tried FL yet?

I have really really briefly actually, but i'm on Mac at the moment. I'm gonna be building a PC this summer however, and i'm really thrilled to try it.

You're in for a treat