is volume not relative?

[Dustwyrm]

Is volume not relative.

I have a track I made. It has maximus on it for ghetto mastering and slamming the volume decently. When I play it in the car it sounds good all the way up. Obv it's clipping a tad, but when i drop the volume to 75%ish the track is much lower overall, but the 80hz range bass feels so nice and audible. You can feel it when the volumes at 75% but I'm losing overall loudness which sucks. That nice bass range is kinda lost at max volume but I gain overall loudness. I don't like the trade off.

My question is. Since the bass is already eq'd properly and at the right freq, should I just increase the volume of it on the mixer, or could I benefit from a limiter on the master...? Or any other suggestions. I'm testing around now, just lookin for ideas.

[mtl6]

what is a maximus?

but honestly i don't think anyone can really give you a definitive answer without hearing what the various alternatives sound like. maybe there's a sweet spot between 75% volume+nice bass vs. 100% loudness but poor bass.

[Dustwyrm]

Ah sorry, maximus is a mastering plugin like ozone I believe. It's native for FL user.

I agree its difficult to help without hearing it on my system. There's definitely a sweet spot. the thing is I'm trying to keep that sweet spot while also slamming the overall volume as much as possible. Maybe I just have to accept the trade off and that ill be unable to get that sweet bass freq with the volume of the track maxxed out.

[mromgwtf]

maximus is a mastering plugin

Just because it has MAX LOUDNESS 666 YOLO SWAG SKRILLEX YO preset it doesn't mean it is a mastering plugin

It is a multiband compressor, it can be used for everything.

[Brothulhu]

Turn your bass down in the mix to 75% then. You've basically just referenced the track and found the bass can be 25% quieter. Turning it down and remastering will make the rest of it louder as you are gaining headroom from turning the bass down

[Dustwyrm]

maximus is a mastering plugin

Just because it has MAX LOUDNESS 666 YOLO SWAG SKRILLEX YO preset it doesn't mean it is a mastering plugin

It is a multiband compressor, it can be used for everything.

haha you have some serious keyboard angst for someone whose every other post is about how to make koan sound snares, feed me bass and detuned saws... in the SKRILLEX Growl Bass thread

pleeeease share one of your deep medi tracks you little tnuc

im assuming you have more to offer than http://soundcloud.com/piotr-joniec/

[Dustwyrm]

Turn your bass down in the mix to 75% then. You've basically just referenced the track and found the bass can be 25% quieter. Turning it down and remastering will make the rest of it louder as you are gaining headroom from turning the bass down

Thanks dude - this is what i was looking for... an opinion. I knew it was simple but couldn't put a handle on it.

[outdropt]

Every speaker system renders the audio played through it differently.

Before you go back to your mix down and mess with the levels of your track check your car's system. Be sure bass, tremble, ect are all level and things like "bass booster" are turned off. I wouldn't trust a car system over a good pair of cans tbh. If you don't have decent monitors setup correctly in a sound treated room go to a local studio or send it to a professional.

[efence]

Every speaker system renders the audio played through it differently.

Before you go back to your mix down and mess with the levels of your track check your car's system. Be sure bass, tremble, ect are all level and things like "bass booster" are turned off. I wouldn't trust a car system over a good pair of cans tbh. If you don't have decent monitors setup correctly in a sound treated room go to a local studio or send it to a professional.

a lot of car systems have amplification issues. different power to divide to different speakers as you crank the volume different speakers eat up a different amount of voltage. I have same issue in my car with bass heavy music. just use the same reference tracks for each sound system and if it sounds drastically different on one system and not another than you can address that issue.

[Dustwyrm]

Thanks dudes - I'm pretty familiar with my system as I've been listening to music on it for about 3 years now. Granted most tunes I'm playing are legit. I went the mastering route with dudes from other states and I just don't want to do it that way anymore. It's too difficult to get the results I want communicating over email. So for now i just want my tunes sounding clear and loud, because well fuck who doesn't like loud.

Anyways what I did was adjust my limiter on some of my mid range and increase the bass overall volume just a little bit. I didn't want to sacrifice loudness so I increased the bass. It sounds a lot more equal now. It was just getting drowned out at max volume and ultimately i make music so i can listen to it. so it's important it sounds good on my system

Here's my song, please people I'm not here to battle over what genre this is.
Soundcloud

[Triphosphate]

I think listening on your car's system is super valuable for getting an idea as to what your track will sound like in a typical listening environment. But you might be putting too much stock in it if you expect it to have a flat response, or a smooth increase of amplification equally across all frequencies.

There's a couple things I do want to point out/ask though.

1) Maximus is a Multiband "Maximizer" which is really just a shitty buzzword for Compressor/Limiter. It's similar to Ozone's Maximizer... But not at all similar to Ozones Mastering Suite, which includes a few modules besides Limiting.

2) Have you tried listening to your track (On real Monitors, not your car's system) at extreme low and and extreme high volume? Listening to your track at really low volume can be particularly revealing.

3) You say that at max volume, it sounds loud, but you lose the low bass... IMHO it sounds like you're not really losing the bass, but that everything else (midrange/upper midrage/highs) is too high in relation to your bass. Which leads me to believe that This is what's happening.

4) If you turn your bass up, you're going to be forcing everything up against the ceiling, and squash the shit out of everything. Especially if you slapped a Maximus preset on the 2bus. Compressors act funny sometimes with long wavelengths (like sub stuff) because the wave's frequency can be slow enough that the attack/release times flux inbetween the troughs and peaks of a long wave... Which is why a multiband compressor is particularly handy. But the presets don't know what you're doing... they don't know how loud the music you're feeding them is, or how sparse or dense your mix is. The thresholds might be set for a track that peaks around -6 db, or they might be set for a track that peaks at -3db, the result will be drastically different. There's no way to know unless you tweak the preset to fit with your particular track.

5) Instead of turning your bass up, try turning everything else DOWN a bit... then go into maximus and play with the threshold of each band to make sure you're not flattening the shit out of everything, or getting extreme pumping (unless you want that, I guess... )

Hope my 2 cents get help you get to the bottom of this... Maybe an audio example can really help us to understand what you're struggling with. (Ah, you snuck it in there while I was posting... )

[Dustwyrm]

I think listening on your car's system is super valuable for getting an idea as to what your track will sound like in a typical listening environment. But you might be putting too much stock in it if you expect it to have a flat response, or a smooth increase of amplification equally across all frequencies.

There's a couple things I do want to point out/ask though.

1) Maximus is a Multiband "Maximizer" which is really just a shitty buzzword for Compressor/Limiter. It's similar to Ozone's Maximizer... But not at all similar to Ozones Mastering Suite, which includes a few modules besides Limiting.

2) Have you tried listening to your track (On real Monitors, not your car's system) at extreme low and and extreme high volume? Listening to your track at really low volume can be particularly revealing.

3) You say that at max volume, it sounds loud, but you lose the low bass... IMHO it sounds like you're not really losing the bass, but that everything else (midrange/upper midrage/highs) is too high in relation to your bass. Which leads me to believe that This is what's happening.

4) If you turn your bass up, you're going to be forcing everything up against the ceiling, and squash the shit out of everything. Especially if you slapped a Maximus preset on the 2bus. Compressors act funny sometimes with long wavelengths (like sub stuff) because the wave's frequency can be slow enough that the attack/release times flux inbetween the troughs and peaks of a long wave... Which is why a multiband compressor is particularly handy. But the presets don't know what you're doing... they don't know how loud the music you're feeding them is, or how sparse or dense your mix is. The thresholds might be set for a track that peaks around -6 db, or they might be set for a track that peaks at -3db, the result will be drastically different. There's no way to know unless you tweak the preset to fit with your particular track.

5) Instead of turning your bass up, try turning everything else DOWN a bit... then go into maximus and play with the threshold of each band to make sure you're not flattening the shit out of everything, or getting extreme pumping (unless you want that, I guess... )

Hope my 2 cents get help you get to the bottom of this... Maybe an audio example can really help us to understand what you're struggling with. (Ah, you snuck it in there while I was posting... )

Thanks for the detailed response Triphosphate. What you describe in #3 is definitely what's happening as it's a direct result of my lack of experience with limiters/multi-band compression. I have these sounds that sound good at certain volumes, but when pushed the max they can become overpowering to other sounds around it. It's a tricky beast to tame and I'm sure through time I'll get better with it.

When I apply Maximus, I typically find the best preset to start with and then adjust accordingly. I'm no expert at it so I settle with what I feel is my best effort. Give me tonight to try some of your advice out. I've tried turning down other synths to create more ample space for the sub, but you post actually triggered some different ideas I want to put into practice.

I'll get back with you after I've put in some work. Thanks dude

[outdropt]

Not to be a thread hijacker but Brothulhu..... You need to show me the thread that your avatar is referencing, everyone was trolling that dude so hard..

That avatar is perfect, gave me a good laugh.

[Triphosphate]

Not to be a thread hijacker but Brothulhu..... You need to show me the thread that your avatar is referencing, everyone was trolling that dude so hard..

That avatar is perfect, gave me a good laugh.

LMFAO... that thread is gone. Which, I guess, is a blessing... but damn it was funny.

@Dustwyrm: I'm gonna give the track a good listen when I get home. But do you mind if I ask what volumes you mixed certain things at before you ran it through maximus? Particularly, your kick, sub, and upper midrange stuff? And also what your master bus is peaking at before you ran it through maximus?

[SunkLo]

Turn all the midrange and fx down. Read the moneyshot thread.

[Dustwyrm]

Turn all the midrange and fx down. Read the moneyshot thread.

thanks but no thanks.

rather avoid pretentious answers and make conversation with actual producers.

[Triphosphate]

Turn all the midrange and fx down. Read the moneyshot thread.

thanks but no thanks.

rather avoid pretentious answers and make conversation with actual producers.

I don't think he's being pretentious, man. He just put shortly what I said very long windedly. And the moneyshot thread, if you haven't read it... It has the potential to do this

[Dustwyrm]

Meh maybe I shot from the hip on that one. I've read pretty much everything offered here; and it's really helped me get to where I am today. So I know how resourceful everyone can be and it's not that I necessarily need help producing, but I come here to have conversation and learn through the process of it. Perhaps my original post came across as noob, probably my fault.

Trip - I spent the greater half of the day working on it. I just updated the link in the previous post with the track. Let me know what you think.

[Triphosphate]

Please, please don't take this the wrong way, I'm trying to help you: I think you still have some elements that desperately need to be turned down. I'm not so sure the Maximus thing is working out for you currently... the track is loud from beginning to end. There's no push/pull for the listener. I mean the soundcloud wave even looks like a furry sausage. I'm let down, because your sound design is there, and creatively, you're there... but arrangement wise it feels like I'm riding a rollercoaster at one speed that goes in a circle... and the mastering process you applied certainly doesn't help.

Is there any way you'd be willing to put up a private souncloud link of the track before the mastering? I'm beginning to seriously suspect that your problems lie in the mix, not it what you're doing to master the track. I have a few questions like: Is the sub playing all the way through the track? What are different elements peaking at in the mix? Please tell me you're not clipping in the mix.

Again, I'm not trying to bash you here... I'm not pretending or trying to act like I'm an incredible producer, because I'm definitely not.