Bumping this thread as wanted to include some of the discussion points on hardware sequencers that I've found
here;
recently I'm more and more realizing that I've got everything to make music from scratch (desk, turntables (aka the sample library), an emu sampler and a midikeyboard).
There's just that computer I'm bothered to use any longer. I want to get away from it despite all the capabilities it provides.
So I was thinking of getting a hardware sequencer. I've heard people doing awesome tracks with purely hardware based setups using sometimes akais from the late 80s to sequence their tracks. Well it's 2013 and I'm currently reading up on sequencers in general but I thought asking you guys wouldn't be a bad idea. Maybe someone can recommend something or share their thoughts and/or experiences on this.
The Yamaha RM1x has a pretty good sequencer or you could get the bigger RS7000, which has more features and an onboard sampler. The sounds are pretty shit though, but if you've got other gear you won't need to use them. Alternatively you could go down the MPC route. It's a shame that there aren't more hardware sequencers about, as they're so much more immediate and fun to use than software.
The Yamaha QY700's very good if you're looking for a fully featured sequencer - Squarepusher uses it, Ken Ishii did his best tracks on it I think
Something like the Elektron or an Electribe would probably be much more immediate and 303-like, whereas the QY's more like a hardware version of Cubase crossed with a soundtracker
Depends how far you want to get away from computers
I can't recommend the Octatrack highly enough - i'm actually enjoying producing again after a couple of years of staring blankly at Ableton and writing the same tune 100 times
. Once you get your head round them they're fucking amazing, and they just shit out happy accidents of awesomeness
For example, the other day I set up a channel on mine which is basically 64 classic breaks sliced into 16ths and with the flick of the crossfader you can skip between the breaks at any point in the loop. You can reverse all the slices on the fly, fix some so they arent affected by the crossfader, set all sorts of bizarre automation and morph between them with the crossfader. So much fun and far more direct than sitting infront of a monitor - don't be fooled by most of the youtube videos, it can do far much more than glitch noises or shitty prog house.
IMO the OT is best used in conjunction with a computer for sample prepping, eqing and so on, so you can feed stuff into it at the highest possible quality. I also picked up an Innerclock SyncLock which syncs it to Ableton at sample-accurate tightness which is great for trying out new stuff alongside your existing Octatrack patterns.
If you've got any questions about the OT fire away - I've had mine since February and the learning curve was a good month of trial and error and then a few months of 'holy fuck it can do that??!' moments. I'm going to be doing sets with just the Octatrack and a Machinedrum at Boomtown and Shambala festivals this summer
hell yes, this is something I wanted to read
I'm wondering mostly how it would perform in conjunction with an emu sampler. I read the octatrack can only play 8 midi tracks and ins monophonic... but my emu is filled with more than 50 gb of multisampled instruments etc.
what if I need more than 8 tracks?
The sequencer in the Electribe is very limited though. But it is a nice all-in-one box to tinker around with if you want to get away from the computer, and the on-board sounds are pretty decent. I agree with you on the QY700 though... fantastic sequencer. I also had an RM1x years ago. As Rogue said, the sounds in it are garbage, but the sequencer itself is definitely useable.
I don't have a whole lot of experience with the MPC series, but aren't they famous for having a fantastic sequencer? If so, that may be the route to go, particularly in conjunction with an E-MU.
The keyboard workstations (Motif, Triton, etc) are great, but you're paying for a lot of features that you might not need if you already have a sampler and a MIDI keyboard. A buddy of mine produces Hip Hop & Electro with the Korg Kronos, and swears by it. I've had a chance to play around with it, and it is out of this world. It's not exactly cheap though...
Have you considered an Atari ST or a 1998 iMac with MacOS 9? Still computers, but they won't be useful for anything else outside sequencing.
you don't have to go away from the computer completely to get the full benefits of working on other hardware..
i don't see much point of using other hardware to record with unless it is for the purpose of giving it color.. like tape or whatever
but you can still make the full track on hardware, and then just use a computer to record with.. so 100% non computer music making, with the option of taking it as far into computer as you wish just from it being used to record with
personally i make most outside the computer, mpc and synths/romplers, mix and try to make it sound good with those tools, then record in cubase where i can continue to mix and arrange if needed.. and if i need a new melody or drum pattern or whatever, i just create a new track and hit record.. and then back to being able to focus on the keyboard or the mpc instead of the computer
this way, it never gets too much working in front of the computer for me.. it's only at risk of happening if i have recorded something without first being certain of what i want from the sound.. like wanting to change the kick after i have already recorded all the drums.. but then such limitations are good, it helps pushing you to make good choices from the start, as it is not as easy to go with a "I'll fix it later" attitude
I wanted to keep the computer as an option. It's super versatile and for sample mangling there is no more flexible tool than it. but for bouncing out ideas and for jams it just slows me down with my attitude "hm... I could do more to that, I should mix that first, maybe there's something else".
Using it as a recorder, yes. Using it occasionally to mangle sounds, yes. Mix stems with it, yes. Rearrange stuff, yes (although this is one of my weakest points in music production). Write tunes on it, nah...
Honestly I'm not keen on releasing tunes and getting famous etc. For me this whole thing is a hobby it should make fun. It's more interesting than playing computer games, which I pretty much gave up 8 or 9 years ago. I'm fine with limitations, regardless whether those might be soundwise or less flexible. It's about the fun. And if a octatrack is not the best solution to make full use of the emu but makes tons of fun.. yeah then maybe I should get something like it.
Still curious about experiences from other peeps about hardware sequencing!
https://soundcloud.com/ja-ki/keen-jam
This is a jam with the emu and a midi keyboard. I sampled a few secs from a random 12" and went with that. Everything except the hihats coming out the sampler. The computer recorded track by track and I rearranged it later. Not much mixing, just a limiter and an eq I guess on the master. Despite being nothing fancy I like this track, as it was created in just about 1 hour and it was fun!
performing with hardware is a logistical nightmare. you really have to want to do it as a statement of intent. for a brief period i toured with a an akai dps24. it weighed about the same as a girl. the excess baggage was sometimes more than the booking fee (especially for places like russia and further out of europe).
i just use an emx now. i've dabbled with a sampler next to it but a lot of the time you can just use the cdjs that are inevitably taking up all the space (sometimes up to 8 of the fuckers on a stage - god knows why) to trigger samples over the top, and even then, it's an embellishment, and doesn't add much. a vocalist does tho. when the two of you are in sync interesting performance options can be played out, simply due to the amount of control you have over what's being played.
I started out using hardware sequencers. Still have some... there is definitely something special about them, but be prepared for squinty eyes and a lot of menu diving. I have a couple of RM1x, they are excellent for the price you can find them for now. A lot of the sounds are workable if you really mangle them in there, but you can just bypass them and use its sequencing/remxing and MIDI capabilities too. I also agree about the QY series, really excellent stuff. I'd also check out the Alesis MMT-8 which is also great depending on how complicated a setup you are going with. MPCs work great as well if you are fine with the drumpad type interface. There's a lot to choose from depending on your budget. 2000XL are excellent and very affordable these days.
A friend/music partner of mine got this unit from a new French company called Feeltune, the Rhizome. Soon after we received it the company went bankrupt and liquidated its assets. It's a very crazy machine, one of the most intuitive sequencers and pieces of hardware I've ever used. It can even run VSTs (it has 3 screens), but it's about 3 grand and as mentioned the company is now defunct. They are around though. Honestly it's basically a computer in a huge rackmount type box running a proprietary OS/software but using it has yielded unique results so far.
You didn't list any drum machines/sampler/synths that you owned. Will you use hardware for that as well? If you're interested in analogue gear, some of the best stuff currently being made is coming from Analogue Solutions. They do some sequencers like the Europa:
http://www.analoguesolutions.org.uk
A couple of other modern sequencers are made by the excellent company Future Retro:
http://www.future-retro.com/products.html
I don't know your budget or what features you need exactly but here's some very reputable companies that are known for making very good sequencers. If nothing else enjoy some gear lust:
http://www.doepfer.de/maq.htm
http://www.doepfer.de/Dark_Time_e.htm
http://www.genoqs.com
http://www.mfberlin.de
If you are interested in DIY, check out these:
Klee:
http://electro-music.com/forum/forum-155.html
MIDIBox:
http://www.ucapps.de/index.html?page=midibox_seq.html
The question is, do you really need more than 8 tracks of midi at once? Half the fun of the octatrack is being forced to work within its limitations. You could use all 8 channels to create an epic pad or whatever, then resample it to a channel and you've got 8 free midi channels again
The Octatrack has 8 monophonic sampler channels (eg; each channel can only play one sample at a time) or 7 if you decide to use the last track as a 'master' track.
It also has 8 midi channels, each with its own arpeggiator, assignable midi LFO and up to 3 simultaneous notes per step. You can also 'P-Lock' midi CC's of your choice to every step of the sequencer.
Where the Octatrack comes into its own is its 'Record buffers' - there are 8 assignable record buffers that can record from any combination of internal sampler channels and audio inputs A/B/C/D and can be used instantly whilst recording on the fly. You can set slice-points on these audio buffers so that anything you record into it will automatically be chopped into 16ths or whatever. Its really fucking hard to explain so bear with me
Imagine the following setup: 8 midi channels controlling your emu > running 4 individual outputs of audio from the emu into the octatrack inputs and into a recording buffer each >
Record the audio from the emu > next time the pattern starts these 4 live recorded channels will be used as the sample source for each track they are assigned to. Now if you've set up automation, loads of different slice points and notes etc for these sampler instruments then you will hear the audio you just recorded being manipulated instantly.
Check out this video for an example - the guy is playing simple patterns on Korg Volca's, recording it into the octatrack then manipulating the audio on the octatrack instantly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okdZFgxFxjQ
Okay, after a long research I guess the octatrack is not exactly what I want. But I tend to look for the MPC series, especially for that mpc 4000 which seems to be ridiculously good.
any comments, thoughts, experiences? Ibunshi? where are you?
edit: tbh I like the thought of using the sequencer as an instrument too, which would be the case in terms of an mpc (or even octatrack)
edit2: I didn't read a few of the earlier posts, so to clarify my equipment currently consists of:
midikeyboard, emu sampler, motu 828, mackie 8bus, a dj mixer and a few turntables, that's about it I guess. Those analogue solutions are like... overkill and to sophisticated for my purposes
^^ everything i do, except for the strictly pad/ambient/soundscape stuff, starts on the mpc4000.. if the things i have done, has drums, then they have been programmed on the mpc
well, it does more than i'll ever need for drum programming and getting ideas down quickly.. probably use less than 10% of its features.. don't use the effects unless you count filters.. i've barely touched the modulation matrix... and so after a long time of using it, i still feel there is so much more i can explore and make use of if i ever need it.. but that was kinda the idea when i made the move from the mpc2000xl to the 4000.. to have a great tool, that has enough depth for me to feel i will not outgrow it in a hurry... but then as with all mpc's.. it does not exactly do the work for you, so you get what you put in... it can be used to get quick sketches down, or to go into extreme detail with...
the way i use it, is that i tend to start by making minimal or basic sketches.. usually with the drums "complete" and sounding as i want them, before i record in Cubase, full drumtrack with simple bass or melody, as the mpc pads are not as great as a keyboard for that..... however, if it is minimal dnb/jungle/drumfunk stuff.. then i might do the full track right away on the mpc... i program sequence variations and most of the times i record live, mixing sequences going on feeling alone.. there's no need to do much planning when you can simply feel how long the intro should be, when you should let things build up etc etc. and you can build up by activating tracks within a sequence to have new sounds come in.. or switch to a new sequence.. you can also create variation on the fly with simple track mute's and solo's.. or program live by adding or removing hits to what you already got..
that is a little bit of how i work.. and adding to that, since i am pretty sure of the drums when i finally record them, i tend to always at least have a full length drum track left if all else fail... so, the next time, i might not have need for the mpc at all, and simply lift that drumtrack into a new cubase project, and then just jam to it on the keyboard... so even if a track fail, i will still have good material that can potentially be put to better use in a new project, and when it is already more or less fully arranged, it makes it quick and easy to get started and work with.. and you can then put all focus elsewhere if you wish
EMU Command Station can be had for £200 at the moment and is a VERY powerful hardware sequencer.
The entire elektron series looks and sounds pretty darn good, from the analog four to the machinedrum, monomachine, etc. Mr. Dataline has some great videos on youtube, where he is playing them live. Worth a look.
Akai MPC. I have a 2000xl, IMO its pretty much perfect,just wish it had more midi ins and outs.
i sold my monomachine due a financial crisis & I miss it so much. however, i reckon the the octatrack is the one for me next. mostly because i know the operating system quite & shouldnt have too much trouble getting into it & fancy some badman samply badness with it.
that said, i had my first play with an mpc2500 the other day its sooo easy to use. & that quantise, what a laugh, you can play like a hamfisted goon (which i am) and it comes out ace
don't miss the monomachine. dreadfully built, horribly limited. reasonable sound i suppose... but it just wasn't the kind of tool i'd let leave a studio environment, even tho it obviously wanted to.
