Running out of Originality?

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Running out of Originality?

Post by Phatscout » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:37 am

http://www.attackmagazine.com/features/ ... nce-music/

Anyone read this? It's a damn interesting article about "revivalism" in general but, to be honest it got me thinking about the whole nature of originality as a concept. You know, as they say true originality isn't even a thing and what we all call "originality" is simply the re-arranging of already existing elements into new formations (think books, movies, songs, etc.) However, all this made me think something. Can culture eventually "run-out" of originality? I mean, is it possible to reach the point where every element (maybe trope would be a better word, shit I dunno) in a given group of media (you know, movies, music) is used in every singe possible way in every single combination to the point that, literately "everything has been done before"?
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Re: Running out of Originality?

Post by sigbowls » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:45 am

kinda like with computers we will run out of room on the chip to beable to advance more
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Re: Running out of Originality?

Post by wolf89 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:22 am

honestly the dance music scene goes round in cycles of people geting bored with stuff and something interesting breaking out. This then gets over saturated and turns shit so people looks back to redoing a new version of something from the past til it gets stale they have to break out into something new.

Fresh interesting music appears all the time but general trends just go round in circles like this.

In the grand scheme of music it's difficult to pinpoint where the last truly "original" moment happened. Conlon Nancarrow pretty much smashed everything apart with him writing music that was not physically possible to be played by humans and many early electronic musicians made sounds that were previously impossible to have been heard but there's many who pushed towards that so that's hard to pin point where it happened.

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Re: Running out of Originality?

Post by hubb » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:23 am

No, it cannot.
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Re: Running out of Originality?

Post by deadly_habit » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:47 am

Generally the trend is one or two people come up with something original that sells, then 100 million people copy it until it's a generic shell of what was original and people are sick of it, all the while someone else is doing something original and the cycle never ends.

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Re: Running out of Originality?

Post by test_recordings » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:21 pm

Does there need to be originality though? I don't see the point of Disclosure other than being a current focal point for generating mainstream interest in garage, if I bought any records of the genre it wouldn't be there's.

I think a dubstep revival would actually be good. It got prematurely killed with the USA completely missing the point, the subsequent birth of brostep and the framing of Skrillex etc as 'dubstep' along with the use of the term EDM as if the past 30 years of dance music didn't exist...
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Re: Running out of Originality?

Post by kaili » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:22 pm

i had to do like a presentation on thi slast year
never did but i wrote some shit
n one of the things i noted was tht technology's always adding new original possibilities
specially in relation 2 electronic music, certain inventions can change it forever
even nowadays for example granular synthesis/fm already added tonnes of new possible sounds when they came about
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Re: Running out of Originality?

Post by hubb » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:50 pm

The idea that we could run out of originality is like saying that lazyness is either contagious or superior to any other attitude.
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Re: Running out of Originality?

Post by Genevieve » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:04 pm

Revivalism is no reflection of (a lack of) originality in dance music, but of its age. Rock music has gone through several cycles of reviving a number of styles and a lot of rock music in the '60s is heavily indebted to the folk music revival of that time.
test recordings wrote:I think a dubstep revival would actually be good. It got prematurely killed with the USA completely missing the point, the subsequent birth of brostep and the framing of Skrillex etc as 'dubstep' along with the use of the term EDM as if the past 30 years of dance music didn't exist...
Most kids in Europe, even the UK, who say they like dubstep are Skrillex kiddies too. And before that, if you talked about dubstep with most random people, they would talk about how much they love 'Eastern Jam'.

America didn't kill shit and it didn't 'miss the point'. This is a normal evolution of musical genres. A scene starts out, then a group of fans hear something else in it than the original crew of musicians do and the sound changes. Breakcore was the same, it was anti-technical distorted noise OPPOSED to digital audio and 'four-to-the-floors', but it evolved and by the mid '90s the scene was centered around filesharing and digital music technology and by the turn of the century, it had four-to-the-floors.

"Heavy metal" was originally loud and noisey slow-mid tempo blues rock. And more specifically, black metal was a thrash metal offshoot similar to death metal before it diversified and became more about repetition, atmosphere and darkness over brutality.

That's just the way it goes with music.

And midrange brostep started with Caspa, Rusko, Cookie Monsta, Chase & Status and the Circus crew before Skrillex took over, and screechy brostep was being played out at large shows and festivals all over Europe and America, before Skrillex was even a thing.

And I'm glad dubstep is over. Most of it sounded the same. A lot of it was good shit, but it's time for something else
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Re: Running out of Originality?

Post by dickman69 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:12 pm

yea fuck american dubstep

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Re: Running out of Originality?

Post by kidshuffle » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:16 pm

saw the article title and didn't read anymore.

music has always been taking the "retro" and putting some new technique on ir
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Re: Running out of Originality?

Post by gαммα » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:27 pm

this video should answer OP's question

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Re: Running out of Originality?

Post by test_recordings » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:30 pm

Genevieve wrote:Revivalism is no reflection of (a lack of) originality in dance music, but of its age. Rock music has gone through several cycles of reviving a number of styles and a lot of rock music in the '60s is heavily indebted to the folk music revival of that time.
test recordings wrote:I think a dubstep revival would actually be good. It got prematurely killed with the USA completely missing the point, the subsequent birth of brostep and the framing of Skrillex etc as 'dubstep' along with the use of the term EDM as if the past 30 years of dance music didn't exist...
Most kids in Europe, even the UK, who say they like dubstep are Skrillex kiddies too. And before that, if you talked about dubstep with most random people, they would talk about how much they love 'Eastern Jam'.

America didn't kill shit and it didn't 'miss the point'. This is a normal evolution of musical genres. A scene starts out, then a group of fans hear something else in it than the original crew of musicians do and the sound changes. Breakcore was the same, it was anti-technical distorted noise OPPOSED to digital audio and 'four-to-the-floors', but it evolved and by the mid '90s the scene was centered around filesharing and digital music technology and by the turn of the century, it had four-to-the-floors.

"Heavy metal" was originally loud and noisey slow-mid tempo blues rock. And more specifically, black metal was a thrash metal offshoot similar to death metal before it diversified and became more about repetition, atmosphere and darkness over brutality.

That's just the way it goes with music.

And midrange brostep started with Caspa, Rusko, Cookie Monsta, Chase & Status and the Circus crew before Skrillex took over, and screechy brostep was being played out at large shows and festivals all over Europe and America, before Skrillex was even a thing.

And I'm glad dubstep is over. Most of it sounded the same. A lot of it was good shit, but it's time for something else
You must admit, the general American, and now UK head, wouldn't particularly recognise 06ish dubstep due to the mainstream adopting the screechy approach. That's what going to be pushed 'new' because people won't have heArd it. I should have more accurately stated it as killed as far as major media care...
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Re: Running out of Originality?

Post by Genevieve » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:47 pm

test recordings wrote:You must admit, the general American, and now UK head, wouldn't particularly recognise 06ish dubstep due to the mainstream adopting the screechy approach. That's what going to be pushed 'new' because people won't have heArd it. I should have more accurately stated it as killed as far as major media care...
Right, to the general UK head and then later, the American fan, yeah, you're right. So? Some dudes who are legitemately into Hotflush/DMZ/breakstep, don't recognize Horsepower Productions or Ghost or early Skream as "dubstep", to them it's just dark 2-step, because it isn't in halftime. All just depends on what you're first exposed to.

There are also people who STILL don't recognize death metal as a type of 'metal music' because it's not loud blues rock.
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Re: Running out of Originality?

Post by exfox » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:19 pm

deadly habit wrote:Generally the trend is one or two people come up with something original that sells, then 100 million people copy it until it's a generic shell of what was original and people are sick of it, all the while someone else is doing something original and the cycle never ends.
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Re: Running out of Originality?

Post by nousd » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:31 pm

Originality originates in a particular time,
with the nexus of events & technological evolution met with idiosyncratic intellectual & social responses.
Even though recycled elements may seem familiar & human motivations endearingly persistent,
originality isn't sourced from a finite pot of ideas
but is our ongoing adaption to this unique now.

Day to day
originality derives from a close regard to actuality.
Last edited by nousd on Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Running out of Originality?

Post by wolf89 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:35 pm

kaili wrote: even nowadays for example granular synthesis/fm already added tonnes of new possible sounds when they came about
FM simply allowed for complex sounds to be created with simple maths and less resources. It was obviously a massive step in the development of musical technology and it does have a distinct sonic palette that it is suited towards giving it a recognizable sound and application but I'm not sure that it was such a gigantic leap in changing musical composition. I mean it does have it's idiomatic approaches when writing for it but I don't think it's done anything but advance approaches to sound that were already previously in place.

Granular synthesis is indeed a type of synthesis that couldn't exist in it's current form until pretty recently. It has lead to some interesting sounds and it's also behind a lot of technology being used in sound now in less obvious ways too. However actually writing for it is again just a continuation of the exploration of sound that has been going since electronic instruments and recording techniques have existed (or possibly even further back) and additionally the thinking about sound in a granular or microsound realm has existed for a good amount of time before the technology for granular synthesis came about.

I guess the point is is that it's hard to draw the line where originality would lie. I mean if you are to focus on the bigger picture of how music is composed there hasn't been a huge shift since the initial experimentation with electronic music that took place or Nancarrow's machine played music. Also sonically it's just been further explorations into the realm of sound that couldn't be physically produced or exists acousmatically since the early 20th century. Even with generative music the initial thoughts behind writing music with systems in this manner has existed a very long time.

You could also take a much smaller focus though and say that every time a new synthesis technique has came about that it did result in originality as every single time it happens a slightly different pallet of sound and method of composition is taken on by the users of it. At this level though simply developing a new personal technique of playing an instrument or recording it could be considered as originality (Colin Stetson for example with his way of playing and recording saxophone).

Personally I'm unsure of where I draw the line. On one hand there's not really anything I hear that ever drastically changes the way I think about music and sound anymore but there is still music that is constantly is interesting and exciting to my ears and can still be shocking to me.

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Re: Running out of Originality?

Post by wolf89 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:39 pm

gαммα wrote:this video should answer OP's question

This video doesn't work though because it stays so rigidly within equal temperament and avoids the subject of sound itself. Music has already vastly left behind the idea of music written with notes that can be written down in this way and while he does address very slightly that he very quickly moves on talking about what is enjoyable and moves into the realm of popular music and generic song writing.

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Re: Running out of Originality?

Post by particle-jim » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:49 pm

wolf89 wrote:
gαммα wrote:this video should answer OP's question

This video doesn't work though because it stays so rigidly within equal temperament and avoids the subject of sound itself.
absolutely, he basically starts out by arbitrarily putting finite parameters and limits on what music actually is and then goes on to say that music is finite and limited :corntard:
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Re: Running out of Originality?

Post by SKIN E » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:55 pm

If he did not do that it would be about sound itself as music is pretty much subjective, great video.

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