Any tricks to add complications to a song?

[Dizzo]

IMO complicated music sounds really good as long as it is done right. But for me its just so difficult to actually make my music complicated. I listen to all types of music and a lot of what i make is hip hop beats and thats because they're a lot more simple and for me they're easier to make. But i feel so confined because of this. I mean i like hip hop and definitely want to keep making it but i also really want to get into so much more.

I know practice, practice, practice and you'll get better but sometimes like i dont even really know where to start. I just wanted to throw myself out of my comfort zone and i ended up making complextro track and even then it took months of quitting and coming back (but i finished it and im pretty proud of it - its in my sig) and even then like 85% of it is presets. I feel like the whole preset and not making every sound in my own song is holding me back but when i do make my own patches they just sounds so simple which leads right back to the whole "complicated" thing i feel like im struggling with.

Should i start with a melody/basic pattern and then go through and worry about sound design second and maybe effects third?

If its not 4 on the floor house should i start with a drum pattern and then lay everything else out to really match the drum sequence?

Ive been practicing and kind of going out of my comfort zone just trying different genres but recently it seems like ive hit a brick wall. Do any of you guys have any tips as to where to start or a method that works for you?

Sorry for the long post but ive kinda been frustrated with myself lately when it comes to this and i doubt im the only one whos ever had this problem

[Dustwyrm]

I'm typing this as I listen

First off you could benefit from learning buildups and creating tension. it doesn't always have to be a big movie quote drop deal, but buildups are pretty standard in electronic genre. Listen to some of your favorite songs, and try and imitate the movement and structure.

Also you may want to experiment with filters and limiters. One of the biggest tips is to not play sounds that clash at the same time for complex music. The arrangement you have in this song is good. It just needs transitions, sweeps, buildups, progression.

Overall it's interesting and I can tell you've been making tunes for a while. I'm assuming you're a young chap. (I took a look at your Soundcloud.)

Just keep at it. Like I said try and imitate your favorite artists for inspiration. It's not cheating, I'm always listening to other music when I'm producing. As did the artists before me and before them and before them.

[OfficialDAPT]

Haven't actually read through it yet, but it seems relevant: http://getthatprosound.com/50-pro-tips- ... nic-music/

[Dizzo]

Dustwyrm - I think practicing buildups would probably do me a lot of good especially since no matter how "fancy" it is, they pretty much all follow the exact same and relatively simple criteria. So thats a good idea

One thing ive noticed is that usually the more intense the buildup - the simpler the drop. That doesnt necessarily apply to every song but it does to a lot of the beatport chart toppers (not that im looking to top that chart)

But what exactly do you mean by adding tension? As well as experimenting with filters - like the highpass/lowpass/comb/etc. filters in massive?

And i know! Ive heard that limiting is almost just as fundamental as compressing but the only problem is that i dont know when/where to properly use it. Like i was watching this deadmau5 livestream on youtube and he was talking about how madeon gets his stabs to hit so clearly and punchy over his melodies because its all limited. But when i do it i dont even really know what im doing i just do it because i hear thats what a lot of people do and that it makes a huge difference.

Understanding others is the best way to help understand yourself!

OfficialDAPT - I actually bookmarked that and im gonna read the entire thing in one sitting after i post this

[Sure_Fire]

I always work with something until it's genuinely pleasant for me to listen to, even if that means deleting/starting over or reworking stuff until I'm happy with it. If you think something isn't working, don't sit on, do something about it. I've started songs with anything from a growl, to an old melody, to a beat or even a new synth patch I like. That's the great thing about music, there is no formula to it. If you want more complexity, listen to that type of music, break it down and then replicate it in your own way. Learn from the experience, rinse, repeat. Also making lots of different genres helps you to focus on different parts of songmaking. If you want to create tension I'd probably listen to progressive house tracks, for catchy melodies listen to electro house/club tracks (Calvin Harris does it especially well), for complexity listen to artists like Zomboy, Helicopter Showdown, Skrillex (particularly his electro house stuff) and Virtual Riot.

As for the limiting thing, having a good visualisation is key. FL's fruity limiter has one, so you can see exactly when things are peaking and cut the tops off them independent of normal compression. It means you can get your tracks nice and loud without excessive limiting in the mastering stage.

[fragments]

Most of the time for me complexity doesn't come from throwing more sounds at a tune and trying to get them all to work together. It starts with melody/harmony. I arrange approximately 64 bars of all my instruments as the first step. I get things feeling like they are calling and responding. I have the instruments progress, trade the octaves they are playing in. I think your melody and harmony should sound like a stand alone, beatless track before you worry about drums, sound design or mixing. If your melody and harmony is complex, progressive and dynamic (builds and releases tension) you are part way there. Next I work on drums, which is a bit easier now, because they will follow the dynamics and progression of the melody/harmony.

If I want to make a really complex track there is a lot of work to be done after I get this basic arrangement of 64 bars down--I bounce everything to audio, save and begin a new project file. Here I begin chopping up my audio tracks to turn my 64 bar progression into an actual song. After I get the basics down, I'll start fiddling with the mix, FX and automation. If I want things to sound really organic and dynamic no elements should be too static. Volume automation is your first basic tool as well as really basic FX automation. I do a lot of automating send amounts to aux delays and reverbs. The only sounds that stay somewhat static are the drums--I usually just chop these as the beat is usually the element in any given tune of mine holding shit together.

My complex songs do typically have a few more elements/instruments than the simple ones--but not twice as many or something crazy like that. For me it's about using sound shaping tools to morph audio in an interesting way over time.