Basic Income Guarantee

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alphacat
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Basic Income Guarantee

Post by alphacat » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:05 am

dangerousminds wrote:
JOBS ARE NOT THE ANSWER: THE BIG IDEA THAT LIBERTARIANS AND SOCIALISTS ALIKE CAN AGREE ON?

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...Allan Sheahen’s important essay on the BIG idea of the “Basic Income Guarantee” concept ...[on] the front page of Huffington Post recently... I’ve long been a fan of the “Basic Income Guarantee” concept (which I was introduced to by Robert Anton Wilson) and this is as succinct an explanation of it as I have read anywhere. No surprise that it was shared so many times by Huffington Post readers.

As Mr. Sheahen explains below, the “Basic Income Guarantee” is a common sense solution to poverty that the likes of Libertarian economist Milton Friedman (overstating Friedman’s place of primacy in conservative economic orthodoxy would be difficult to do ), liberal icon Senator George McGovern, Dr. Martin Luther King and even welfare critic Charles Murray could all agree upon.

That’s really saying somethin’, but I’ll let Allan explain…


Jobs Are Not the Answer

The current unemployment rate of 7.5 percent means close to 20 million Americans remain unemployed or underemployed. Nobody states the obvious truth: that the marketplace has changed and there will never again be enough jobs for everyone who wants one—no matter who is in the White House or in Congress. Fifty years ago, economists predicted that automation and technology would displace thousands of workers a year. Now we even have robots doing human work. Job losses will only get worse as the 21st century progresses. Global capital will continue to move jobs to places on the planet that have the lowest labor costs. Technology will continue to improve, eliminating countless jobs. There is no evidence to back up the claim that we can create jobs for everyone who wants one. To rely on jobs and economic growth does not work. We have to get rid of the myth that “welfare-to-work” will solve the problems of unemployment, poverty, and homelessness.

“Work” and jobs are not the answer to ending poverty. This has been the hardest concept for us to understand. It’s the hardest concept to sell to citizens and policy makers. To end poverty and to achieve true economic freedom, we need to break the link between work and income. Job creation is a completely wrong approach because the world doesn’t need everyone to have a job in order to produce what is needed for us to live a decent, comfortable life.

We need to re-think the whole concept of having a job. When we say we need more jobs, what we really mean is we need is more money to live on.
 

Basic Income Guarantee

One answer is to establish a basic income guarantee (BIG), enough at least to get by on—just above the poverty level—for everyone. Each of us could then try to find work to earn more. A basic income would provide economic freedom and income security to everyone. We’d have the freedom to work less if we wanted to, or work the same amount and save or spend that money. It would provide a direct stimulus to the economy, which would help create more jobs.

In 1972, Democratic presidential candidate and Senator George McGovern knew the economy was changing. He proposed a $1000 annual “demogrant” for every American. The grant would act as a kind of cushion against the loss of a job or other misfortune. We could pay for a Basic Income Guarantee by eliminating most of the 20th-century programs like unemployment insurance, welfare, Social Security, Section 8 housing, etc., and by having the wealthy pay their fair share in taxes. Billionaire Warren Buffett admits he pays a lower tax rate than his secretary. Mitt Romney said he paid only 13.9 percent in federal income tax in 2010, despite earning $22 million. Average-income Americans pay about 20 percent.

A BIG would be cheaper than a jobs program. President Obama’s 2009 stimulus plan promised to create 3 to 4 million jobs at a cost of $862 billion. That’s over $200,000 per job. Such a basic income would recognize that with productivity as high as it is today, too many workers get in each other’s way. Those who don’t have to work shouldn’t be required to do so. Instead, they can create, do volunteer service, or work at low-paying jobs which are still socially needed, such as teaching or the arts. Think of it as the opposite of trickle-down economics, where we give huge tax breaks to the rich in the false hope that something will trickle down to the rest of us.
 
Try telling a conservative blow-hard that their hero Milton Friedman was the architect of the most successful social welfare program in US history and they’ll often simply refuse to believe you! When offered proof, it seems to infuriate them.


Not a New Idea

Basic income is not a new idea. It’s been debated among policymakers in several nations since the 1970s. Economist Milton Friedman said: “We should replace the ragbag of specific welfare programs with a single comprehensive program of income supplements in cash—a negative income tax.”

The Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr., said: “I am convinced that the simplest solution to poverty is to abolish it directly by a guaranteed income.”

BIG’s most recent American advocate is welfare critic Charles Murray. In his book: In Our Hands, Murray agrees with Friedman and King, and proposes a $10,000 yearly grant paid to every adult. Murray and others argue it would save money. There would be no bureaucracy to support and no red tape to manage.

Opponents claim we shouldn’t pay people not to work. But the duty to pursue work is based on the mistaken assumption that there is work to be had. In the post-industrial age, the USA will provide ever fewer opportunities for low-skilled workers. Policies in pursuit of full employment make no sense.
 
 
Basic Income Can Work

In 1982, the state of Alaska began distributing money from state oil revenues to every resident. The Alaska Permanent Fund gives about $1000 to $2000 each year to every man, woman, and child in the state. In 2012, the amount fell to $878. There are no work requirements. The grant has reduced poverty and the inequality of income in Alaska. A 10-year, 7800-family, U.S. government test of a basic income in the 1970s found that most people would continue to work, even when their incomes were guaranteed. A test in Manitoba, Canada produced similar results.

In 2005, Brazil created a basic income for the most needy. When fully implemented, the plan will ensure that all Brazilians, regardless of their origin, race, sex, age, social or economic status, will have a monetary income enough to meet their basic needs.

A two-year, basic income pilot program just concluded in Otjivero, Namibia. Each of 930 villagers received 1000 Namibian dollars (US$12.40) each month. Malnutritition rates of children under five fell from 42 percent to zero. Droupout rates at the school fell from 40 percent to almost zero. It led to an increase in small businesses.

Most Americans are six months from poverty. Middle-class people who worked all their lives, then lost their jobs and saw their unemployment benefits expire, are now sleeping in parks and under bridges. America hasn’t seen full employment in decades. Even a full-time job at the minimum wage can’t lift a family of three from poverty. Millions of Americans—children, the aged, the disabled—are unable to work. A basic income guarantee would be like an insurance policy. It would give each of us the assurance that, no matter what happened, we and our families wouldn’t starve.
-q-

Also see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income

http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=277505

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Re: Basic Income Guarantee

Post by nowaysj » Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:45 am

Wouldn't it be easier to starve the bottom 50 million americans out of the labor pool? Time to start thinking with your head, instead of your heart.
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Re: Basic Income Guarantee

Post by nousd » Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:17 am

the argument for primacy of jobs over a guaranteed income
would be more compelling if so many jobs weren't destructive, increased inequality or encouraged over-consumption
e.g. making and promoting products that are bad for people's health or environmental sustainability

on the other hand there's no doubt that paying people "sit down" money
without some obligation on a recipient's part to contribute to the community's good,
ultimately leads to an attitude of entitlement, resentment and social division.

if it is true that progress is leading to there not being enough viable jobs for us all
and presuming that most people, with guidance, are capable of doing many jobs
and that many people would enjoy working at their given trade or profession without exorbitant salaries anyway,
then separating the concepts of work and remuneration seems logical.

Instead,
if each citizen was guaranteed basic housing, food and energy allotments,
then given revolving opportunities to undertake work for additional income
not only would there be a recognition of everybody's worth and right to choose
but there would be an increased incentive to take up guaranteed opportunities.

Most people, knowing that an opportunity was scheduled
and that beyond-basic comforts depended on their participation,
would prepare themselves with the requisite pre-training.
Others might be happy with the basics or find self-sufficient ways of meeting their further needs
like growing food in communal gardens or collectivizing their energy production.
(or robbing other people...we're not talking fantasyland)

Just because past attempts at socialism didn't work in practice,
largely because they were too idealistic about human nature, unresponsive to idiosyncrasy and open to corruption,
doesn't mean that a more consultative, pragmatic and flexible system can't evolve
based on the fundamental belief in an equal share supplemented by individual effort.

But yeah it would be easier to starve our excess unemployed.
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Re: Basic Income Guarantee

Post by nousd » Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:35 am

consensus about this sort of thing is more possible than ever
maybe a first step is to ensure that everybody has access to electronic interactivity
then mull over the ideas and details for a generation,
work out who's going to attempt the prototype
and arrange their protection from exploitation

...in other words, thoroughly plan the implementation
monitor it, tweek it, keep consulting...
We'd get there in, say, 50 years
so that this generation could sit back and say OK we've worked out a pretty good system for society
now kiddies, get off this planet and go share it with whoever else is out there.
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Re: Basic Income Guarantee

Post by faultier » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:37 am

on a semi related note: http://www.strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/
The ruling class has figured out that a happy and productive population with free time on their hands is a mortal danger (think of what started to happen when this even began to be approximated in the ‘60s). And, on the other hand, the feeling that work is a moral value in itself, and that anyone not willing to submit themselves to some kind of intense work discipline for most of their waking hours deserves nothing, is extraordinarily convenient for them.

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Re: Basic Income Guarantee

Post by nowaysj » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:53 am

Welcome to the jungle, we got fun and games:

The Jungle - The Nation's Largest Homeless Camp
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Re: Basic Income Guarantee

Post by Pedro Sánchez » Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:54 am

That's why we setup benefit systems to support them who drop out of the labour market for a short while, the problem is rising populations against automated manufacturing and computer systems cheapen the labour and shift what is required in terms of 'skills'...The machines were suppose to make it easier for one man to do his job, instead they do the job of twenty in order to maximise profits under the banner of 'productivity'.
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Re: Basic Income Guarantee

Post by jrkhnds » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:46 am

Switzerland's having a vote on this topic. in november. I'll keep you posted, but most likely the initiative will get smashed.
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Re: Basic Income Guarantee

Post by scspkr99 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:49 am

Think that Friedman's fallen out of favour with a lot of conservatives anyway and I'm not sure how you pay for this by abolishing welfare.

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Re: Basic Income Guarantee

Post by kidshuffle » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:25 am

nowaysj wrote:Welcome to the jungle, we got fun and games:

The Jungle - The Nation's Largest Homeless Camp
well we've pretty much gone back to the 1930's again
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Re: Basic Income Guarantee

Post by nowaysj » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:45 am

And we haven't even really crashed this bitch yet, bout to get real old timie.
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Re: Basic Income Guarantee

Post by test_recordings » Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:10 pm

dfaultuzr wrote:on a semi related note: http://www.strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/
The ruling class has figured out that a happy and productive population with free time on their hands is a mortal danger (think of what started to happen when this even began to be approximated in the ‘60s). And, on the other hand, the feeling that work is a moral value in itself, and that anyone not willing to submit themselves to some kind of intense work discipline for most of their waking hours deserves nothing, is extraordinarily convenient for them.
That's an amazingly insightful article, I've read about the same topic elsewhere. One piece considered how working 8 hours a day deliberately makes you want to consume in your free time. Think about what you do when you're on a long holiday, you don't need a shit load of money just to wonder about and look at things. It's like the scarcity of time for doing what you want makes you almost desperate for something to make it feel like it was worth it. Notice how consumerism doesn't make people better off, except the people at the top of the chain for it. We work and play for their benefit, so they don't have to work. Marketing is fucking evil, psychological mind control. A famous psychologist in America called Watson (of Little Albert fame) deliberately stopped doing psychological research to work on consumerism as growth stalled in the USA due to all necessary demands being met - look what we have today.

I've had many times over the last year where, even though it was my 'free time', I couldn't enjoy it because I'd be too anxious about work so I'd get pissed just to not have to think about it or I've got no-one to talk to so I go to bars in the hope of getting a conversation. I can see how living in a foreign country can cause some serious attrition from lack of social contact, even talking to people requires some kind of meaningfulness or it's just repetitive bullshit.

Anyway, I'm full-on behind this guaranteed income. It would cause demand, if only for those bullshit jobs, at least. People would choose to work less as well, leaving more work available to be passed around.
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Re: Basic Income Guarantee

Post by SCope13 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:18 pm

What's needed is a mandate saying employers can only pay themselves at a certain ratio to their lowest-paid employees. ie: If there was a 2:1 ratio, (a bit of a compromise, but w/e) and a business's lowest paid employee is making $10/hour, the most anyone else in the company could make would be $20/hour :W:






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Re: Basic Income Guarantee

Post by test_recordings » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:48 pm

People would figure out ways around it, like offshore tax havens
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Re: Basic Income Guarantee

Post by jrkhnds » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:57 pm

SCope13 wrote:What's needed is a mandate saying employers can only pay themselves at a certain ratio to their lowest-paid employees. ie: If there was a 2:1 ratio, (a bit of a compromise, but w/e) and a business's lowest paid employee is making $10/hour, the most anyone else in the company could make would be $20/hour :W:
we're having a vote on that, too. it's a 1:12 ratio we're deciding on, though.
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Re: Basic Income Guarantee

Post by test_recordings » Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:10 pm

I don't think it's going to help most people when someone can get $10,000 a year and another can still get $120,000. That's not going to make a difference, probably why that ratio got chosen.
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Re: Basic Income Guarantee

Post by dubfordessert » Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:43 pm

test recordings wrote:I don't think it's going to help most people when someone can get $10,000 a year and another can still get $120,000. That's not going to make a difference, probably why that ratio got chosen.
consider that income ratios within a lot of large companies are more like 200:1, 500:1, than 12:1.
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Re: Basic Income Guarantee

Post by test_recordings » Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:42 am

dubfordessert wrote:
test recordings wrote:I don't think it's going to help most people when someone can get $10,000 a year and another can still get $120,000. That's not going to make a difference, probably why that ratio got chosen.
consider that income ratios within a lot of large companies are more like 200:1, 500:1, than 12:1.
True, Switzerland could do it as well because of all the company HQs there
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Re: Basic Income Guarantee

Post by jaydot » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:04 pm

I'm happy playing roulette thanks.
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Re: Basic Income Guarantee

Post by nowaysj » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:55 am

Few people realize that we have a Basic Income Guarantee in America.

You are basically guaranteed to receive no income.
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