I'm pretty sure you just described 93% of dance music.R3b_Official wrote:. Rather than throw some overplayed shit together and call in a song.
Zomboy Copy Cat of the Year
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Re: Zomboy Copy Cat of the Year
SunkLo wrote: If ragging on the 'shortcut to the top' mentality makes me a hater then shower me in haterade.
Re: Zomboy Copy Cat of the Year
Where would we be without Vengeance and Massive?
Re: Zomboy Copy Cat of the Year
There would be no brodtep, electro house might not have turned to utter shite, and I wouldn't see Chase & Status at nearly every festival I go to.mks wrote:Where would we be without Vengeance and Massive?
- R3b_Official
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Re: Zomboy Copy Cat of the Year
fragments wrote:I'm pretty sure you just described 93% of dance music.R3b_Official wrote:. Rather than throw some overplayed shit together and call in a song.
Thats why I want make something thats not in the 93%, those artist whom have their own style stand out tremendously compared to the other hundreds of other producers making the same song.
Artist like Zomboy are feeding into the fire of overplayed generality. Look at beatport, artist are just trying to hope on the next crazy and copy the next style, basically tune for tune.
I think those hard electo songs with just a reverb percussive hit crave is over. Its not hard putting in a sub and some slight reverb to a tom and saying theres your drop kiddos. Funny thing is people go bat shit crazy for this stuff. Dont know why?
Re: Zomboy Copy Cat of the Year
If you want to make a tune that'll get remembered make music, not dance music. Dance music is meant to be disposable. That's why you don't really see people playing out records from 10 years ago.
Most of the people that go out to parties aren't there for "soul" or "art" or whatever, they want loud, obnoxiously fun music that's easy to dance to will they get drunk, have a roll, try to get laid, whatever.
I do think dance music is interesting in that people get fixated on really particular sounds in sub-sub-genres. Reese bass in DnB, whatever the fuck you want to call those sounds in brostep, minor chords stabs in dub-techno, acid lines in Acid House. IMO, in a way there isn't room for innovation in dance music as what DJs and people want are a paradox. Fresh sounds that sound the same. If you go too outside genre conventions no one will play your tunes, if you go to far outside dance music structure no one will play your tunes. Clearly people do innovate, but that's as much about being in the right time and place and being around the right people as it is the innovation itself. Clearly there are DJs that take chances and play unconventional stuff. But it ain't what the mob wants. There isn't anything wrong with party music/dance music, I'm just saying lets be honest about the nature of it.
Rave culture is very much like Punk in that its very centered around youth rebellion and DIY, while really there isn't that much musically interesting happening. Its always been more about the scene and adhering to the standards of a sub-culture--its a way for people to feel like they are rebelling while still settling safely into a group atmosphere where they feel like they are sticking it to the man with out really taking any risks. The quality of the music is almost secondary. If most people cared about how "good" the music was I don't think there would be much of a scene. Not to mention the music, initially, was either consciously or sub consciously created to play on the effects of specific drugs.
Dance music has always been about the next fad, the next trend. Most of the electronic music that I keep coming back to as a listener are LPs/EPs/Singles that were never meant for the dance floor and are just marginally related to dance culture/rave.
tl:dr dance music is same-y , deal with it.
Most of the people that go out to parties aren't there for "soul" or "art" or whatever, they want loud, obnoxiously fun music that's easy to dance to will they get drunk, have a roll, try to get laid, whatever.
I do think dance music is interesting in that people get fixated on really particular sounds in sub-sub-genres. Reese bass in DnB, whatever the fuck you want to call those sounds in brostep, minor chords stabs in dub-techno, acid lines in Acid House. IMO, in a way there isn't room for innovation in dance music as what DJs and people want are a paradox. Fresh sounds that sound the same. If you go too outside genre conventions no one will play your tunes, if you go to far outside dance music structure no one will play your tunes. Clearly people do innovate, but that's as much about being in the right time and place and being around the right people as it is the innovation itself. Clearly there are DJs that take chances and play unconventional stuff. But it ain't what the mob wants. There isn't anything wrong with party music/dance music, I'm just saying lets be honest about the nature of it.
Rave culture is very much like Punk in that its very centered around youth rebellion and DIY, while really there isn't that much musically interesting happening. Its always been more about the scene and adhering to the standards of a sub-culture--its a way for people to feel like they are rebelling while still settling safely into a group atmosphere where they feel like they are sticking it to the man with out really taking any risks. The quality of the music is almost secondary. If most people cared about how "good" the music was I don't think there would be much of a scene. Not to mention the music, initially, was either consciously or sub consciously created to play on the effects of specific drugs.
Dance music has always been about the next fad, the next trend. Most of the electronic music that I keep coming back to as a listener are LPs/EPs/Singles that were never meant for the dance floor and are just marginally related to dance culture/rave.
tl:dr dance music is same-y , deal with it.
SunkLo wrote: If ragging on the 'shortcut to the top' mentality makes me a hater then shower me in haterade.
Re: Zomboy Copy Cat of the Year
@fragments: It's gonna be party/rave music only if you want it to be.
Depth is a delusion, the deeper you look the less you see.
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Re: Zomboy Copy Cat of the Year
Very thing you said was so well put. Thats the thing i hate about dance music.... We have limitless potential to make some great music but its mainly made for one simple purpose. Nothing too complicated but still something to party with. Sober or not.fragments wrote:If you want to make a tune that'll get remembered make music, not dance music. Dance music is meant to be disposable. That's why you don't really see people playing out records from 10 years ago.
If you look at it, its kinda sad what sounds or genres were left behind since the next style or fad replaced it.
I change to what i said, I want to make good music for people. Be appreciated by producers thinking wow. How did he make that and make something that makes people go nuts or relax and mellow if i do something more chill.
Be well know like Deadmau5,Daft Punk, Kill the Noise, Hardwell, Red Hot Chilli Peppers, and Incubus. Even though the last two bands are not electronic, i still look and admire there work as to many other. Have my name written down some where.
Re: Zomboy Copy Cat of the Year
I don't think "dance" music in general is any more formulaic or disposable than any other roughly defined, big genre. There's nothing more creative about the average radio hit rock/hip hop tune than the average popular dance track. That the music was created "for raving" or to fit within a DJ set isn't a limitation, just a feature.
I'm into rave music, I like tunes that mash up a club, that feel banging and possibly a bit dark. Some people like music that fits best in a concert hall full of well-dressed people. These are all just contexts for music, and none are inherently more artistic or valuable than others. Why isn't dancing just as valuable a ritual (excuse me while I go a bit professor Kode9 here) to perform to music as sitting down and listening to it?
I'm into rave music, I like tunes that mash up a club, that feel banging and possibly a bit dark. Some people like music that fits best in a concert hall full of well-dressed people. These are all just contexts for music, and none are inherently more artistic or valuable than others. Why isn't dancing just as valuable a ritual (excuse me while I go a bit professor Kode9 here) to perform to music as sitting down and listening to it?
RKM wrote: when bae hands u the aux mixtape and your squad blunted 9/11 aye lmao
Re: Zomboy Copy Cat of the Year
There are some old edm tracks that I go back to every few month. The point is that you can and a lot of people did get remembered in edm scene. Pendulum, Avicii, David Guetta, Swedish House Mafia.. etc.fragments wrote:If you want to make a tune that'll get remembered make music, not dance music.
Your argument is invalid sir.
Depth is a delusion, the deeper you look the less you see.
Re: Zomboy Copy Cat of the Year
It's more disposable in that, I believe, a much larger percentage of it will be totally forgotten by the average audience member and much more quickly. There is less that stands out as fantastic in dance music. And yea, you are right, not much creative going on with what's played on the top 40's stations. I never said otherwise. What I said about the rituals of the culture weren't that they are more or less valuable than anything others, but in the context of rave culture the rituals are more important than the music in some senses. Most ravers are going to show up to a party just to party regardless of who is playing. Its more about being a part of the scene participating in rituals, the music is just a backdrop for that. Where in other music sub cultures I feel like going to listen, with intent, to the music being performed is the ritual.Harkat wrote:I don't think "dance" music in general is any more formulaic or disposable than any other roughly defined, big genre. There's nothing more creative about the average radio hit rock/hip hop tune than the average popular dance track. That the music was created "for raving" or to fit within a DJ set isn't a limitation, just a feature.
I'm into rave music, I like tunes that mash up a club, that feel banging and possibly a bit dark. Some people like music that fits best in a concert hall full of well-dressed people. These are all just contexts for music, and none are inherently more artistic or valuable than others. Why isn't dancing just as valuable a ritual (excuse me while I go a bit professor Kode9 here) to perform to music as sitting down and listening to it?
@Icetickle: None of those artists have been around long enough for us to know if they'll "be remembered". I highly doubt any of us are going to end up in a nursing home and still be jamming out to David Guetta.
I'm not trying to get on "rave" or dance music. I love it as much as the next guy on this forum. Ya'll don't have to sell me anything, I get it. I've been participating in it for 15 years. Basically I just don't get why you all get so bent out of shape about somebody that is already yesterdays news.
SunkLo wrote: If ragging on the 'shortcut to the top' mentality makes me a hater then shower me in haterade.
Re: Zomboy Copy Cat of the Year
^Fair point. I guess what I'm saying is wanting to skank out like a madman and get a bit fucked up doesn't necessarily diminish appreciating the music. One wouldn't be as fun or meaningful without the other.
Fragments, Did you hear that roundtable discussion about the death of rave music with Kode9 and a bunch of other journos, label bosses etc? There was a part where someone said that raving in the hardcore/jungle era was "serious fun, seriousLY fun, but also serious fun". You can still feel that ethos at nights, though maybe a lot less, I wouldn't know. But with that approach, the experience of raving cannot possibly be so disposable, can it? And it's still raving, and it's still "dance music" being played.
Fragments, Did you hear that roundtable discussion about the death of rave music with Kode9 and a bunch of other journos, label bosses etc? There was a part where someone said that raving in the hardcore/jungle era was "serious fun, seriousLY fun, but also serious fun". You can still feel that ethos at nights, though maybe a lot less, I wouldn't know. But with that approach, the experience of raving cannot possibly be so disposable, can it? And it's still raving, and it's still "dance music" being played.
RKM wrote: when bae hands u the aux mixtape and your squad blunted 9/11 aye lmao
Re: Zomboy Copy Cat of the Year
I have so many records from 10 + years ago that I totally love and would play out.
Whether or not the kids would dance to that stuff these days.
Like Jungle, Drum&Bass, Techno, House, 2-Step etc.
Maybe music today is way more disposable. I bought most of my music because I liked it which may make a big difference, the key word here being bought.
Then again, probably the average person in some clubs doesn't care about who made the music, it's just the soundtrack to a night out.
Whether or not the kids would dance to that stuff these days.
Like Jungle, Drum&Bass, Techno, House, 2-Step etc.
Maybe music today is way more disposable. I bought most of my music because I liked it which may make a big difference, the key word here being bought.
Then again, probably the average person in some clubs doesn't care about who made the music, it's just the soundtrack to a night out.
Re: Zomboy Copy Cat of the Year
I don't believe that the cultural activities diminish the music in any way, the nature of the music is a function of the ritual. I'm fascinated by the fact that dance music has boiled down (mostly) Western based music into extremely simple basics and has made world phenomenon out of it. But I feel as someone who creates the music, not always successfully, its important to understand the role of the music inside the context of the ritual. And yea, the serious/seriously fun bit resonates with me for sure. The music was only part of the culture's vision. Its one of those fantastic cultures that collects One Percenters by the boat load and I love that about it as well.Harkat wrote:^Fair point. I guess what I'm saying is wanting to skank out like a madman and get a bit fucked up doesn't necessarily diminish appreciating the music. One wouldn't be as fun or meaningful without the other.
Fragments, Did you hear that roundtable discussion about the death of rave music with Kode9 and a bunch of other journos, label bosses etc? There was a part where someone said that raving in the hardcore/jungle era was "serious fun, seriousLY fun, but also serious fun". You can still feel that ethos at nights, though maybe a lot less, I wouldn't know. But with that approach, the experience of raving cannot possibly be so disposable, can it? And it's still raving, and it's still "dance music" being played.
This turned out much more an academic exercise than I anticipated : )
@mks: I think you make some valid points there.
SunkLo wrote: If ragging on the 'shortcut to the top' mentality makes me a hater then shower me in haterade.
Re: Zomboy Copy Cat of the Year
Harkat wrote:Fragments, Did you hear that roundtable discussion about the death of rave music with Kode9 and a bunch of other journos, label bosses etc? There was a part where someone said that raving in the hardcore/jungle era was "serious fun, seriously fun, but also serious fun". You can still feel that ethos at nights, though maybe a lot less, I wouldn't know. But with that approach, the experience of raving cannot possibly be so disposable, can it? And it's still raving, and it's still "dance music" being played.
These are two great points (as is your input, Fragments) and I want to expand on with an idea I've been throwing around over the weekend.mks wrote:I have so many records from 10 + years ago that I totally love and would play out.Whether or not the kids would dance to that stuff these days.
Like Jungle, Drum&Bass, Techno, House, 2-Step etc.
Maybe music today is way more disposable. I bought most of my music because I liked it which may make a big difference, the key word here being bought.
Then again, probably the average person in some clubs doesn't care about who made the music, it's just the soundtrack to a night out.
MKS has mentioned the disposability of music today, and I think with EDM/bro/drumstep etc etc, this is very much the case. The EDM genres are disposable because they lack a place to gestate.
All the music genres with more lasting impact did so because they had some to develop, to grow. Dedicated club nights where groups of producers would get together to play their new beats and learn from one another, DJs that would take tracks and flip them in specific ways to achieve and develop a new sound.
Drum & Bass had Rage, where Fabio & Grooverider developed the sound from flipping Belgian breakbeat techno records at 45rpm rather than 33rpm. Later on, nights like Metalheadz @ Blue Note allowed for the development of the more soulful side of things.
Dubstep had DMZ, which was essentially 20 blokes bored of UK Garage when it was first started, and was more of a producer showcase than a 'rave'. Tracks were brought down, people tried new shit and tried to one-up each other in terms of production.
The rise of the LA Beat/Instrumental Hip Hop thing that FlyLo and the like have going on came about from Sketchbook, sitting around with one another playing tapes of their latest jams/experiments/compositions, which would eventually develop into Low End Theory.
These are just examples for relevant genres...but the point is the same. The sounds had a focal point where like minded people came together to try new idea and to get feedback and inspiration in a club environment...to grow the sound and let it organically evolve to the point of 'breaking through'.
Where does EDM do this? Nowhere.
Most of the producers who make it aren't old enough to attend the rave events where it gets played, so there is less feedback of knowing what works and what doesn't. "Sick choon, mate!" on a Soundcloud page is hardly the same as seeing people groove to a track in a small dark room somewhere and having other producers hear it on a decent rig and being able to provide actual real face-to-face experience based feedback on what works and what doesn't.
EDM is disposable because of this. Same with brostep. Same with drumstep. Same with Moombahton, Chillwave, whatever is the flavour of the month that neckbeard blog writers come up with to appear relevant and bedwetter producers the world over embrace to appear niche and cutting edge. Genres that have no physical presence in the world beyond a few Soundcloud pages.
I've got 20yr old tunes in my collection that I'll still breakout from time to time, DJ mixes from way back when where the sounds were developing and the experimental/unknown vibe of things and still sound fresh as a result.
I very much doubt todays rave kids will be bumping Take Me To The Mountain in a couple of decades.
Re: Zomboy Copy Cat of the Year
On topic- i've said before if, like a lot of brostep producers, you just want to sound like skrillex then why bother with all the sound design and stuff when you can just sample bits of his tunes. I mean the end result is the same right?
On 'djs don't play tunes from 10 years ago'- i suppose it all depends on what djs you go and see. I saw dj sneak a while back and he was probably playing the same records as he dod 20 years ago, never mind 10 and still getting crowds and money- either from people on nostalgia trips or kods pooe me trying to experience some of the magic of 80s chicago or w/e. The same thing happened when i saw loefah in 2011ish when he did a.set which was half jungle half DMZ back catalogue- basically a load of old tunes but i'd say they still mattered to everyone there, indeed the atmosphere was more like a gig when the band starts playing their big hits.
Then you have guys like ben ufo and jackmaster who always play old tunes in between their newer label dubs, be it 90s garage, 80s house and techno or 02-07 dubstep and grime, it gives old tunes a new context and to most listeners, ie. me they might as well be new tunes since i've never heard them before. Just because people no longer see a scene as hot doesn't mean all the music stops existing and future generations might have as much fun rediscovering stuff as the people there at the start.
On 'djs don't play tunes from 10 years ago'- i suppose it all depends on what djs you go and see. I saw dj sneak a while back and he was probably playing the same records as he dod 20 years ago, never mind 10 and still getting crowds and money- either from people on nostalgia trips or kods pooe me trying to experience some of the magic of 80s chicago or w/e. The same thing happened when i saw loefah in 2011ish when he did a.set which was half jungle half DMZ back catalogue- basically a load of old tunes but i'd say they still mattered to everyone there, indeed the atmosphere was more like a gig when the band starts playing their big hits.
Then you have guys like ben ufo and jackmaster who always play old tunes in between their newer label dubs, be it 90s garage, 80s house and techno or 02-07 dubstep and grime, it gives old tunes a new context and to most listeners, ie. me they might as well be new tunes since i've never heard them before. Just because people no longer see a scene as hot doesn't mean all the music stops existing and future generations might have as much fun rediscovering stuff as the people there at the start.
Re: Zomboy Copy Cat of the Year
I know a lot of brostep producers who hate skrillex..hutyluty wrote:On topic- i've said before if, like a lot of brostep producers, you just want to sound like skrillex then why bother with all the sound design and stuff when you can just sample bits of his tunes. I mean the end result is the same right?
Depth is a delusion, the deeper you look the less you see.
Re: Zomboy Copy Cat of the Year
My point is that not every brostep producer wants to sound like skrillex and not every dubstep producer wants to sound like burial.hutyluty wrote:good for you lol
Depth is a delusion, the deeper you look the less you see.
Re: Zomboy Copy Cat of the Year
Good points all around here. Do you guys think the internet means those slow-burn, carefully built music scenes are over, in favor of flavor-of-the-week blog-step?
RKM wrote: when bae hands u the aux mixtape and your squad blunted 9/11 aye lmao
Re: Zomboy Copy Cat of the Year
Yes...just because the 14yr old bedwetters think it's cool in the comfort of their parents house, doesn't mean it's going to translate into any longevity in the real world.Harkat wrote:Good points all around here. Do you guys think the internet means those slow-burn, carefully built music scenes are over, in favor of flavor-of-the-week blog-step?
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