Mixdown issues Headphones vs Speakers

[Lektrone]

No idea why, but it seems like eveything I mixdown in my headphones sounds like shit when I play a track back on my moniters, and vice versa. Having a difficult time getting a solid mixdown that translates across different sound systems. Anyone gotz any tips yo?

Headphones are Audio-Technicas, and moniters are KRKs. Just in case anyone wanted to know.

[forbidden]

headphones don't represent the 3d stereo field much if at all. you basically get center right and left, whereas with the monitors you get sort of a front and back sensation as well. i would recommend just mixing with monitors and reference with headphones along the way that way you know what a good mix sounds like on the phones in case you are trapped mixing on them.

[Milaflore]

Hey, I find it's all about knowing and seeing how things translate onto different systems which you learn over time, its going to be trial and error at first but you will get there, first and foremost is make sure you use what people call 'gain structure' and make sure that your levels are all at the 'correct' volumes in relation to each other, the whole thing about kick at -12, snare at -14 etc etc . Are there any elements in particular that are not translating well? and what specifically is it that is not sounding right about the track?

[cent4ur]

meh..train your ears m8 and learn your monitors. it will come in time so don't overkill yourself about it. the more mediums you have to compare your music the faster you'll realize what you're doing wrong and how can you make it right. mostly is endless A/B testing, modify FX chain accordingly, render, A/B again.

[rockonin]

Why don't you get a track that you know what it should sound like in terms of mix quality. Play it through your monitors, then listen through your headphones and see what the difference between them is.Then apply the findings to your own work. It's going to vary depending on you monitor and headphone models.

[fragments]

It might have something to do with what kind of changes you are making...don't make huge changes...small tweaks are best as you are looking for a balance. If you mix a track on headphones, then listen on speakers, then make a ton of changes to make the mix sound on speakers and go back to headphones only to find the mix sounds like shit on headphones then start making big changes to make the mix sound good on headphones...it can be a vicious cycle. Learning your monitors in your room and your headphones and how they color the sound (or misrepresent it) is key. Then you'll know that when the bass goes away in your mix or the highs get dull when you switch from one system to another that it's just how that system sounds.

Listening to a reference tune is probably the best advice here ;p

[Sharmaji]

^ yep ref. tunes are key.

I find making any sort of dynamic decisions is impossible in headphones.

really just use the cans to mix levels.

[Huts]

I usually just use headphones to make sure stuff isn't too loud. My leads always tend to sound nice on my monitors, but shred my ears when I put on headphones. Anything else though (creating sounds, stereo stuff etc) I stick to monitors. After watching that Subfocus video a few years back I've also got a nasty habit of touching the cones and feeling where stuff is hitting, and I can't do that with headphones

[AxeD]

Hey if you can't mix on headphones, don't blame the headphones.

[Simulant]

I find making any sort of dynamic decisions is impossible in headphones.

This, and stereo imaging is also a problem due to the lack of crossfeed. The best thing to do is use a combination of headphones and monitors, and get some treatment for your room.

[SunkLo]

I really don't give many fucks about stereo imaging most of the time. If anything, I'm more likely to be checking in mono instead of trying to reference with a nice wide soundstage. If it sounds good summed, you know you've got a pretty solid mix on your hands.

I felt the same way about dynamics until I got my Sennheisers. Felt like someone turned off a compressor on my ears. I imagine it has something to do with open vs closed cans. Since closed back headphones are basically really small rooms strapped to your head, it's no surprise that dynamics wouldn't be as crisp when put through little reverb chambers.

Still probably not as good as nice monitors in an optimally treated room, but that's not something that's readily available to a majority of producers.

Like Fragments is saying, make more subtle moves. Start off by comparing reference tracks, then your mix. Make half of the move you think you need to make and reference on your other system. Ultimately translation is finding the perfect middle ground. You're not going to get there by optimizing heavily for one playback system.

[Lektrone]

Hey everyone, thanks for the solid advice. Ima have to put your suggestions into practice. Def gonna have to do a little more digging around for some good resources on mixdown techniques. Kinda sucks listening to your track sound like ass when you're showing your bros at work after spending a whole weekend mixing it down. Then they all be like, "you gotta quit dat shit."

[AxeD]

Is your production so good that when you have other people listen, they actually comment
on the mixing?

[webstarr]

might be obvious, but make sure your monitors are setup in the correct position. Also what are the acoustics like in the room you're mixing in?

[Lektrone]

@AxeD, nah... it's just so bad that nobody actually cares to comment on it :/

@Webstarr, the room's not acoustically treated, if that's what you're asking. So I'm sure that sound waves are bouncing all over the place. I'm actually moving here in a few weeks, and I definitely have plans to treat the studio at the next place of residency.