mastering at home...

[MARCHMELLOW]

Ez Guys and Gals,

Ok, so i just wanna clear something up;

I've been reading the threads of EQing and compressing your various tracks like subs and kicks etc...

BUT,

if you were going to master your track at home by getting the final .Wav file and using a mastering chain including EQ, compression and limiting...you wouldn't want to compress your sub, kick etc before the mastering stage right?

any views? facts?

cheers

[pushre]

Personally, I almost never compress bass or kick, but you'll probably get differing opinions on that.

Using compression during mastering should not preclude you from using it on individual tracks. Take a snare track for example... Compression during mastering will do nothing to get that nice attack on a snare, so you would use a 'fast-attack, slow release' compression type on your snare track, and a 'easy, mastering' type compression on the overall mix.

[Littlefoot]

heres my thought process:

you have two types of approaches when applying compression and eq (destructive effects in general)

Creative

and Corrective


If I wanna make a really tight sub with a suck feel on the attack, ill compress it before mastering.

But at the same time I will be using multiband on the sub frequencies later.

its just a matter of keeping ontop of it, realising what you're doing and how your effecting the sounds.

try this: put the EQ and Multiband/Comp/Limiter whatever on your mix bus in your DAW then take it in and out and see how it effects your compression applied in the MIX

hope this helps.

[MARCHMELLOW]

thanks for the advice, i'll give that a try Joe C.

ok, in regards to limiting... is this something you'd only apply to the final mix? or something you guys regurally use on individual tracks?

[chunkie]

i use compression on certain tracks whilst mixing but only use limiting on the master channel during 'mastering'

[cryptic]

This may sound stupid

say ive got a bassline, can i compress it then put compress it again with a multiband compressor?

[osk]

Yes.

Although I'm repeatedly reminded not to use compression on subs.

[chunkie]

beware of how compression affects the harmonics of a sound

by pushing up certain frequencies and harmonics in order to 'squash' the sound, it may have a knock on affect with other instruments in that region

plus, may generally push out the wrong harmonics for what you're trying to do

its one of the bastard subtle situations where a good monitoring set-up really comes into its own!!

[wasteman]

This may sound stupid

say ive got a bassline, can i compress it then put compress it again with a multiband compressor?

Yes of course but It might not sound very good. Why are you trying to compress it twice? Remember a compressor is just an automated gain control, if you need to compress say a synth bass line why not just play with the note velocity's in your piano roll? People have a huge misconception that a compressor will always make a sound "fatter" or "louder", in fact they do the opposite most the time. However if used intelligently compression can increase the overall perceived loudness of a sound, by bringing up the quieter parts making them more in line with the louder. When compressing or applying any other effects try to match the dry and wet signal levels, then try turning the effect off, your be surprised how many times it sounded better with nothing on.

For compressing sub bass lines, I simply don't. If the notes are uneven in volume then a will simply play around with the piano roll. If I need the note to sustain longer then I will play with the sustain in the synth or note length (which will give me much greater control than any compressor will). In this situation I would maybe only use a compressor to add some slight character although this is depending on the compressor im using. For bass and drums you may want to try parallel compression, this is where you simply mix the wet sound of the compressed signal with the original dry.

With mastering you can try mixing with a compressor on the master bus, you may find you wont need as much compression on individual tracks and channel automation. A ratio of 2.1 is pretty standard for a compressor when used in a mastering situation, anything more and you may wish to reconsider your mix down. I wouldn't seriously try to master anything with my setup by the way.

Of course there are no rules and you can use compressors for more creative means but you should try and think before you just put a compressor on a track, what it is you actually want it to do?

[wasteman]

beware of how compression affects the harmonics of a sound

by pushing up certain frequencies and harmonics in order to 'squash' the sound, it may have a knock on affect with other instruments in that region

plus, may generally push out the wrong harmonics for what you're trying to do

its one of the bastard subtle situations where a good monitoring set-up really comes into its own!!

This is a good point on why you wouldn't want to compress your sub. You want the sub to be a sub you don't want its high end brought up in the mix you want it for its sub properties, if you do want more high end on your sub then don't filter it so much!

[MARCHMELLOW]

beware of how compression affects the harmonics of a sound

by pushing up certain frequencies and harmonics in order to 'squash' the sound, it may have a knock on affect with other instruments in that region

plus, may generally push out the wrong harmonics for what you're trying to do

its one of the bastard subtle situations where a good monitoring set-up really comes into its own!!

This is a good point on why you wouldn't want to compress your sub. You want the sub to be a sub you don't want its high end brought up in the mix you want it for its sub properties, if you do want more high end on your sub then don't filter it so much!

what about if you heavily heavily filter, and then do what was mentioned above? would that still manage to bring out the the mid and high frequencies even if you have completely filtered them out?

[Sharmaji]

quite simply: just always make it sound better.

if i'm home-mastering stuff, i'll set up a chain of (usually in this order) compression, eq, limiting. maybe put some saturation in there too, if the mix can handle it. sometimes the compressor is working really hard; sometimes it's bypassed, sometimes it's just being used really fast, as a low-ratio peak compressor and nothing more.

eq is really where mastering shines.

lmiting finally to get as much volume-before-distortion as possible, without losing your drums.

the best thing you can do is give yourself goals in a certain stage of production; like, by the end of writing you want to have your arrangement 99% there; by the end of your mix you want to have your levels at -6 to -3 and sounding really good.

in the ideal mastering session, the ME says "this sounds great, there's really nothing more i can do. good job." anything after that is correcting your mix.

so yes-- eq, compress, distort, limit, do everything you need to on individual tracks and groups to make your tune sound totally bangin and heavy enough to play out. then start worrying about mastering-- but only then.

[djsiege]

From a mastering for cd or vinyl point of view, the advice to me has always been to not compress, limit, maximase, normalise on ANY tracks. If it's completely essential then limit it to 1-2 dB max. That's assuming you're handing the track over to a proper engineer who knows his stuff.

Also, to make sure your bass is not too loud because it will stop the mastering engineers ability to boost the volume of the track as a whole. You know when you get those vinyls where the bass is big but the rest of the track is way too quiet (dnb is classic for this).

I suppose if you're planning on playing your tracks out at a night then it doesn't really matter. But if you're looking to release as mp3 then get it mastered by someone serious. The same for getting vinyl pressed, but that goes without saying.

[MARCHMELLOW]

ok, that makes sense, but my question was more along the lines of;

an unfiltered sub with a multiband compressor on it would bring out unwanted frequencies, as everyone knows. but i was curious...if you heavily heavily filtered the sub, then put a multiband compressor on this, would it still bring out unwanted frequencies, even if you have totally flitered them out? and would it boost the sub better then a normal compressor?

i don't wanna actually do it (unless its good), i'm just sitting at work, bored beyond belief!!

[MARCHMELLOW]

sorry, question for TeReKeTe...

[martello]

so yes-- eq, compress, distort, limit, do everything you need to on individual tracks and groups to make your tune sound totally bangin and heavy enough to play out. then start worrying about mastering-- but only then.

[MARCHMELLOW]

From a mastering for cd or vinyl point of view, the advice to me has always been to not compress, limit, maximase, normalise on ANY tracks. If it's completely essential then limit it to 1-2 dB max. That's assuming you're handing the track over to a proper engineer who knows his stuff.

Also, to make sure your bass is not too loud because it will stop the mastering engineers ability to boost the volume of the track as a whole. You know when you get those vinyls where the bass is big but the rest of the track is way too quiet (dnb is classic for this).

I suppose if you're planning on playing your tracks out at a night then it doesn't really matter. But if you're looking to release as mp3 then get it mastered by someone serious. The same for getting vinyl pressed, but that goes without saying.

the great thing about getting vinyl pressed is they'll do any eq boosting and basic mastering before cutting. but of course you need to take things into consideration before sending anything to them!

[MARCHMELLOW]

so yes-- eq, compress, distort, limit, do everything you need to on individual tracks and groups to make your tune sound totally bangin and heavy enough to play out. then start worrying about mastering-- but only then.

hmmmm, i'd say its always good to keep mastering in mind from the beginning of a track....

[djsiege]

I'm at work aswell, also bored beyind belief. Perhaps that explains why I managed to write 150 words of complete irrelevance.

I would say that the advice I have always got is to minimise your compression on the sub, you'll lose the harmonics and it will end up sounding flat.

[wasteman]

beware of how compression affects the harmonics of a sound

by pushing up certain frequencies and harmonics in order to 'squash' the sound, it may have a knock on affect with other instruments in that region

plus, may generally push out the wrong harmonics for what you're trying to do

its one of the bastard subtle situations where a good monitoring set-up really comes into its own!!

This is a good point on why you wouldn't want to compress your sub. You want the sub to be a sub you don't want its high end brought up in the mix you want it for its sub properties, if you do want more high end on your sub then don't filter it so much!

what about if you heavily heavily filter, and then do what was mentioned above? would that still manage to bring out the the mid and high frequencies even if you have completely filtered them out?

Well yeah the more you filter the less your going to hear it, but regardless there will be less sub and more high than what you started with. Why are you trying to compress your sub?