Mark Duggan was not armed when shot by police

m8son666 · Post by **m8son666** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:08 pm

djredi2step wrote:yeah but buses don't lie to make themselves look better. what a shit arbitrary comparison

Ok

You would say death by bus is pretty uncommon though wouldn't you? A lot more people have died by bus than by police brutality so death by police brutality is uncommon.

Laszlo · Post by **Laszlo** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:14 pm

djredi2step wrote:http://www.inquest.org.uk/statistics/de ... ce-custody
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 99484.html

Ta

DJoe · Post by **DJoe** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:15 pm

I don't get what your point is.
I wouldn't say that death by bus is uncommon especially now ive seen the stats for ppl killed by bus.

Regardless of how common or uncommon police killings are, they shouldn't be happening whatsoever.

Mark Duggan was not armed when the police shot him
When the news first came out, the met claimed shots were fired at them
the gun found 25 ft from duggan's body did not have his dna on it
The police have been changing their story consistently since the event.
Even if he did have a gun, I don't think the police would have been right to shoot him

This will lead to greater mistrust in the police.

What bit don't you agree with?

m8son666 · Post by **m8son666** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:23 pm

I agree with all of that tbh

Its just the fact that people (not you necessarily) are making it seem like the police are doing this all the time and are massively corrupt that i disagree with.

Also i think although obviously we should aim for no deaths by police i think it is unreasonably optimistic to think that we will ever achieve that.

alphacat · Post by **alphacat** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:59 pm

From breakingnews.com...

DJoe · Post by **DJoe** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:08 pm

http://news.sky.com/story/873616/shot-c ... hits-radio

when the event there were reports of police issue bullets in the copper's radio. has this been explained yet?

DRTY · Post by **DRTY** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:07 pm

m8son wrote:
Its just the fact that people (not you necessarily) are making it seem like the police are doing this all the time and are massively corrupt that i disagree with.

Also i think although obviously we should aim for no deaths by police i think it is unreasonably optimistic to think that we will ever achieve that.

I know that feel bro. Facebook gets more tiring every day with people jumping on that blindly anti-establishment viewpoint for the fuck of it. I don't know much at all about this story but it seems if One policeman makes some terrible mistake/judgement call/whatever = WHOLE SYSTEM IS CORRUPT. Must be infuriating to be a policeman, constantly berated for no reason. I think some people cannot accept that sometimes, bad things just happen.

kay · Post by **kay** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:21 pm

I think people can accept that sometimes things do go wrong. What they might have more difficulty accepting is that no policeman is ever found to be at fault for the wrongdoing.

DJoe · Post by **DJoe** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:24 pm

and the various incorrect cover up stories and conflicting witness statements.

m8son666 · Post by **m8son666** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:24 pm

There would of still been that huge riot regardless of the verdict of this case though.

DRTY · Post by **DRTY** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:27 pm

they definitely are lol. Seen plenty of stories of policeman charged with offences. Here's one from today http://www.buxtonadvertiser.co.uk/news/ ... -1-6359035

bennyfroobs · Post by **bennyfroobs** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:34 pm

djredi2step wrote:yeah but buses don't lie to make themselves look better. what a shit arbitrary comparison

LOL

first part of this quote is true also

m8son666 · Post by **m8son666** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:42 pm

A life's a life. Why don't people complain about bus deaths and condemn all bus drivers like they do with police? I am sure bus drivers lie and make up bullshit to get away with it when they are at fault. Strange example i know, perhaps a better one would be surgeons or caring staff?

Also as i said before that numbers pretty much bullshit as it includes every death that has anything to do with the police so the amount of deaths that are actually through maliciousness of the police will be much less than that.

kay · Post by **kay** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:49 pm

DRTY wrote:they definitely are lol. Seen plenty of stories of policeman charged with offences. Here's one from today http://www.buxtonadvertiser.co.uk/news/ ... -1-6359035

I stand corrected. Perhaps I should have limited my statement to situations where lives have been lost.

DJoe · Post by **DJoe** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:50 pm

yeah the point isn't really the numbers i shouldn't have posted tbh, its just that you said police killings were uncommon.

lets just leave the bus drivers out of it.
people do complain about bus deaths, look at all the cyclist stuff going on in london and road safety campaigns.
bus drivers aren't choosing to shoot people with a gun designed to kill people, they are accidently running them over. but seriously stop going on about buses.

I really dont get what your point is. that we shouldn't care that someone was shot by the police? that we shouldn't care they tried to cover it up?
What are you trying to say

m8son666 · Post by **m8son666** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:10 pm

Police killings are uncommon ffs thats my point. While deaths in custody or deaths while being chased may not be uncommon (i think that about 150 a year is pretty uncommon tbh) 'police killings' (i.e shootings) are very uncommon. It's not that we shouldn't care, of course we should, it's just that people shouldn't condemn every policeman as a corrupt wanker, which a lot of people do, just because someone gets shot unjustly every couple of years. This is what i am trying to say.

Also do you think the policeman shot him for fun? Do you not think he must of genuinely had a reason to shoot him? Even if in hindsight it was not a valid reason. The policeman might have thought duggan was about to shoot him or one of his mates for example, what would you have done?

m8son666 · Post by **m8son666** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:13 pm

m8son wrote:Its just the fact that people (not you necessarily) are making it seem like the police are doing this all the time and are massively corrupt that i disagree with.

Also i think although obviously we should aim for no deaths by police i think it is unreasonably optimistic to think that we will ever achieve that.

I thought i made my point clear with this post tbh

DJoe · Post by **DJoe** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:22 pm

the main problem I have with it all is the lack of culpability by the police. i dont think he was shot for fun.
i think it was probably an accident.
The way the police went on to cover their tracks is disgraceful.
In Recent memory there has been the killing of Mark Duggan, Ian tomlinson, charles de menez
all were very controversial and it seems the police are never found culpable
The is not including a number of cases in recent years in which the police have been recorded saying the n word and being openly racist, leading to 0 convictions.

Im not saying every policeman is a tnuc
it does seem like there are quite a few who are and are above the law.

The verdict of a lawful killing, though legally in this case correct is in my opinion morally wrong even if an accident.

DJoe · Post by **DJoe** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:24 pm

i forgot to add azelle rodney killed in edgware 2005 who was shot not once but twice in the body and then 4 times in the head

test_recordings · Post by **test_recordings** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:11 pm

Lack of police accountability is actually starting to look like a big issue in the UK. No-one gets charged for fucking up on the job, as mentioned.

What happened about that Mendez guy? He was just running for a train ffs...

Mark Duggan was not armed when shot by police

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