Subs - Are they necessary?

thenapking · Post by **thenapking** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:02 pm

What's your opinion - do I need to buy a sub to make dubstep well, or can I get by on some decent studio monitors?
fyi I have a pair of Alesis M1 MkII's. The bass sounds good to me, but I know they only really go down to about 45-50Hz...

osk · Post by **osk** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:21 pm

depends what level you're at I suppose. I don't have one, and nor can I envisage myself needing one till I've mastered everything I can on my studio monitors.

although it would be nice. no point though if you haven't sorted the acoustics of your room either...

once again, then, it seems it's a matter of money.

Sharmaji · Post by **Sharmaji** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:37 pm

in the dance, yes.

in production-- not really.

in mixing-- depends on your monitoring setup. the folks i know who have subs are generally turning them on and off, just to check certain mix things.

def. makes it a lot more fun, though. $500 worth of fun, i dunno.

whineo · Post by **whineo** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:12 pm

I also have a pair of Alesis M1 MkII's

My Flat Mate Has a pair of Mackie Hr824s

Not saying that the Makies are the be all and end all but they do put plenty of other monitors in the shade. Most notably, to my ears, the Alesis M1 MkII's

Although I achieve some nice soundng mixdowns using the Alesis I don't trust them much.
My advice would be to get some really top end monitors b4 you get a sub.

djsiege · Post by **djsiege** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:18 pm

Having the same dilemma at the moment. Blue Sky's 2.1 or Tapco S5's. The advice i've been given is that if you're working with a genre that requires greater sub bass frequency accuracy then maybe a sub will do it. But for everyone who says it will theres someone who says it wont. Best advice seems to be to try it out, if it fits the way you work then great. If not, try something else. Its all about building a studio environment that suits how you work.

thinking · Post by **thinking** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:56 pm

nah, those Alesis are great imo. The 824s do have some serious welly in the lowend, but I know several people that use them, and they overpower almost everyone's studio space except the guy that has plenty of expensive acoustic treatment.

I think you're far better off learning your own speakers/space, doing A/B comparisons with tunes you KNOW sound great in the lowend, and using a spectral analyser if you still don't think you can trust your ears.

you could also learn a bit about frequency & pitch, and choose keys which will naturally produce monstrous subs in the correct register.

thesynthesist · Post by **thesynthesist** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:21 pm

as long as you can reference on a really sizable system, i think mixing with the smallest woofers possible is the way to go.

Having to compensate and make the bass louder on a small system will give it a real punch on a big system.

auan · Post by **auan** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:16 pm

thesynthesist wrote:Having to compensate and make the bass louder on a small system will give it a real punch on a big system.

Or just make the bass too loud.

I own a sub, but haven't hooked it up in years. It annoyed the piss out of the downstairs neighbours.

It's down to personal taste, like everything, but imo the goal is flatness across the frequency spectrum. If the sub is loud enough to make your chest thump, then you don't have flatness.

But like I say, it's personal taste, and like Osk and ThinKing say, room acoustics have a lot more to do with it. Look into that because it's cheaper than you think (duvet pinned up behind the monitors, rolls of carpet in the wall corners, that kinda thing, fuck dem £500 Acoustic Treatment Solutions) see how that improves your sound, then ask about subs.

Oh and there's the old car test, ipod test, PA test, myspace player + crap pc speaker test, and a bit of patience in your mixing.

thenapking · Post by **thenapking** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:11 pm

cheers for your input guys.
i guess i'm thinking about this because i don't have a large system to try my tracks out on, so as far as subbass goes i don't know how much i trust the mk2s. Perhaps it would be better to buy better monitors rather than a sub, that's certainly something to consider. So far i;ve been a bit lazy about monitor placement & studio treatment, so i should probably sort that out first.
i've got used to mixing on the mk2s, and none of my mixes have sounded off so far when i;ve heard them mastered or on other systems. but so far none of my mixes have had very big basslines.

tempest · Post by **tempest** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:19 pm

maybe a pair of decent head fones to check the subs?? thats all i run, single big fold back JBL think for makin tunes, then headfones/car stezza for references. Mind you, my mixdowns are shit... But the headfones are good to see whats going on the the sub area, even if it is a little hyped. much cheaper than a woofa

thesynthesist · Post by **thesynthesist** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:49 pm

Auan wrote:
thesynthesist wrote:Having to compensate and make the bass louder on a small system will give it a real punch on a big system.
Or just make the bass too loud.

Well nothing will help, if you cant get a good mix...

westernsynthetics · Post by **westernsynthetics** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:57 am

dont bother for production.

Just get good monitors...and take yer dubs down to the local HI FI store and test on one of their big systems...or even better be friend a DJ and get him/her to play your dub on a big system

tempest · Post by **tempest** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:16 am

westernsynthetics wrote:dont bother for production.

Just get good monitors...and take yer dubs down to the local HI FI store and test on one of their big systems...or even better be friend a DJ and get him/her to play your dub on a big system

Indeed mate, indeed....

ps: Play my dub on a big rig plz

thenapking · Post by **thenapking** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:46 am

cool. what do people think of the M1 MkIIs for sub accuracy?

chunkie · Post by **chunkie** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:55 pm

westernsynthetics wrote:dont bother for production.

Just get good monitors)

damn straight

nothing more embarrassing than doing what i did and spend hours on every system making sure your bass is good and solid....

only to dj on a nice club system and realise you're hi-hats are hurting people's ear drums!

a set of good monitors will make sure everything other than the sub is in good order, you can sort out he sub gooness other ways /\ /\

westernsynthetics · Post by **westernsynthetics** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:32 am

tempest wrote:
westernsynthetics wrote:dont bother for production.

Just get good monitors...and take yer dubs down to the local HI FI store and test on one of their big systems...or even better be friend a DJ and get him/her to play your dub on a big system
Indeed mate, indeed....

ps: Play my dub on a big rig plz

send me the bizniss and id be glad to!!!

tempest · Post by **tempest** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:43 am

Yer, well my tracks are yet to see the light of day. But i'll get some tunes done this weekend,get em online and hook you up... Feedback actually would be really good if possible.. Don't think i'd actually get you to play em out tho, but you can be the judge of that

billy the robot · Post by **billy the robot** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:11 am

I remember reading years ago in ATM magazine about a d&b producer who had lost a lot of his hearing and suffered from tinnitus, I believe it was Optical, produced killer bass by putting his hand over the hole in his studio monitors to feel the push of air coming out. The fatter the bass, the more push he felt. Technique works well with my little shelf speakers at home. Try it, experiment a bit.

tempest · Post by **tempest** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:33 am

ha that sounds like 'its all gone pete tong' where some DJ goes deaf then learns to mix with a speaker under his feet vibrating

decklyn · Post by **decklyn** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:40 pm

TeReKeTe wrote:in the dance, yes.

in production-- not really.

in mixing-- depends on your monitoring setup. the folks i know who have subs are generally turning them on and off, just to check certain mix things.

def. makes it a lot more fun, though. $500 worth of fun, i dunno.

I have HR824s which go down below 40hz and thought I'd be alright without my sub. For putting together a track they're fine, but I don't trust my mixes right now so I'm migrating in a highfigh sub just to check the bump @ hz<50.

I'll definately be turning it on and off. it's hi fi and my room isn't treated, but checking the physicality of a tune to make sure it shakes without being obscene, flat, annoying or overly inorganic is important. I miss my sub and can't wait to put it back in here.

Subs - Are they necessary?

Subs - Are they necessary?

Subs aren't necessarily necessary

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