The Fedora/Cringe thread

[ehbes]

Political language has been seemingly getting royally fucked for decades tbh.

because people wanna go be able to go around saying that their Marxist Luxemburgist Anarcho Wankist views that they found on wikipedia are superior to yours.

[hubb]

Ofcourse there's that, especially on social media but it's more a case of what the swamp lady with the unfortunate hair said in her target less rant

Social practices have a political history. Those in power are those who determine what "legitimate" culture is.

[rickyarbino]

[quote="magma"]but isn't anarchy about not having people in charge at all? I'm probably just being too literal.
/quote]
That's what communism, in its purest form, is about.

[hubb]

lol no m8

[rickyarbino]

lol yes m808. Communism isn't actually achieved until there is no government in the society.

[hubb]

Commune/state is sort of interchangeable, but the political principle takes it name and meaning from how it has the state govern everything.

I know what you mean, but that only relates to an idea of flat structure and is hardly the key principle. It's not an absolute and neither is it non-centrical in practise.

[titchbit]

i think i know what jesslem's getting at tho. marx predicted the final stage of the evolution of society was that the state would disintegrate away and we would all be left in a sorta utopia. have to brush up on my marxist theory to remember if that final stage is actually "communism" or not but either way that's what he said.

[rickyarbino]

I'm certain it is. Without that then the society in question fundamentally isn't communist. That's why opponents to the regimes in states like USSR were known as counter-revolutionaries, they were resisting the revolution for communism.
It's the same principle which keeps most, if not all countries, from having experienced true capitalism; the government is economically active, which is really a consequence of its existence.

[OGLemon]

Communism is basically a form of anarchism. The difference between commies and anarchists is that anarchists want a direct change to no government (hierarchy), while commies advocate a transitional period (socialism) until the government becomes unnecessary in economic affairs. The ends are the same, but the means are different.

[titchbit]

I dunno if the ends are the same though. Anarchism is a dystopia imo, while communism envisions a utopia. Like in an anarchist society, it would be very "every man for himself", "take what you can get, leave everyone else behind". Whereas with communism it's "take according to ones need, give according to ones ability" or whatever.

[OGLemon]

Well not necessarily. most anarchist envision the society being devoted to the idea of anarchism. That is, nobody is going to commit coercive actions against one another. So anarchy and communism are both utopian societies. Personally I see anarchy as being the final form of human civilization.

On another note you could say that the system we live in today is dystopian.

[garethom]

Russian Fedoration

[rockonin]

Russian Fedoration

[ultraspatial]

I dunno if the ends are the same though. Anarchism is a dystopia imo, while communism envisions a utopia. Like in an anarchist society, it would be very "every man for himself", "take what you can get, leave everyone else behind". Whereas with communism it's "take according to ones need, give according to ones ability" or whatever.

nah there's different types of anarchisms. most popular ones today are very social-oriented. what you're talking about is more like a nihilistic breakdown of society (there's probably people who want that tho)

[OGLemon]

m8son being one

[hubb]

while commies advocate a transitional period (socialism) until the government becomes unnecessary in economic affairs.

This is what I meant with a key or governing principle
(only this time in actual english )

cheers og

[Phigure]

anarcho syndicalism is the anarchist master race

[kidshuffle]

Political language has been seemingly getting royally fucked for decades tbh.

Its been longer than that tbh. 200-300 years ago, being a Conservative meant being pro-monarchy and a Liberalism was all about laissez faire capitalism. Political terminology is always based on geographical history and thats what fucks us

[rickyarbino]

Those aren't very political words though tbf.

[kidshuffle]

Those aren't very political words though tbf.

Again, your political geography and history have a lot of influence on the way a society uses certain terms. There is no way anyone in my country is using the words conservative/liberal in a non-political sense.