Lets talk post production mastering for a bit...

[decklyn]

Okay, so you've got your tune sounding pretty good.
A/Bs show that its tight. Still not quite there but it hasn't come out of the mastering house.

WTF do you do with your tune when you mix it down?

I've stopped even putting a master compressor on my tunes and I'm getting a bit of an itch to start building a rack for doing this shit.

I'm thinking of maybe grabbing a TC finalizer 96k ($1500).

Any thoughts?

I've read quite a lot and I'm just plain stumped.
I want some more shine and pressure on my tunes but I can't seem to get anywhere.
Always respect for people's opinions on here.

[roqqert]

learn the magic of a eq....

you've to make space for your instruments in the frequencies to get more punch, shine and clearness

edit : compression is the devil. most of the time you dont even have to use compression with vst's. mostly you use compression for dynamic sounds/signals

[misk]

if your really gonna put together a rack for mastering, think about throwing in some joe meek, some UA, and some neve gear. expensive, but if you really want to "master" than thats the way to go...

[misk]

learn the magic of a eq....

true... but have you heard the magic of an 1176? all you have to do is add a slight compression ratio for it to saturate your tracks with warmth. After working with some expensive gear, you start to realize that VSTs are all good, but they tend to require a lot of fiddling to get the same power out of them that you might get out of a truly analog signal path.

oh, and decklyn, im getting a 16 channel ampex 2-inch tape recorder for mastering alone. gonna buy some tape and use it as a signal processor... you could just go that route (though its expensive! im getting mine for free tho)

[roqqert]

wouldn't be rly usefull if you have hardware and you dont even know how to mixdown a track with vst's

[misk]

wouldn't be rly usefull if you have hardware and you dont even know how to mixdown a track with vst's

funfact: dont buy an 1176 unless you know what the hell you're doing.

[Sharmaji]

$ for mastering: put less into the rack and more into the room and speakers.

alot of the mastering sessions i've been to have been a mix of in-the-box processing (waves, UAD and stuff) and outboard (outrageously expensive limiter, some manner of manley/pultec/whatever eq), as much to have something outside the box to crush the A/D converters and really get shit loud.

and nearly all of them have said that they could do it all in the computer; it's the controlled environment that's the most important part of a mastering setup.

my $.02

[jtransition]

$ for mastering: put less into the rack and more into the room and speakers.

alot of the mastering sessions i've been to have been a mix of in-the-box processing (waves, UAD and stuff) and outboard (outrageously expensive limiter, some manner of manley/pultec/whatever eq), as much to have something outside the box to crush the A/D converters and really get shit loud.

and nearly all of them have said that they could do it all in the computer; it's the controlled environment that's the most important part of a mastering setup.

my $.02

Amen

[batfink]

You could buy a UAD card (bout 400 quid) and get your hands on lots of rather excellent simulated vintage gear, including the 1176.

[auan]

You could buy a UAD card (bout 400 quid) and get your hands on lots of rather excellent simulated vintage gear, including the 1176.

And the Access Virus.

fap fap fap fap.

[FSTZ]

I thought the virus was with the TCWORKS Cards


FAPP nonetheless!!!!

[paradigm_x]

no virus is tc

i have 3 uad cards best thing i ever bought. faptastic

neve, roland echo (ESSENTIAL BIZ), plate verb, fairchild, and p[recision stuff if you wnat (NOT DEMOED EM YET) oops sporadic capslock

pisses on vsts

and so quick

voxengo elephant is a very capable limiter.

filter out anything thats not used at mixdown (eg lf for hats, highs in subs etc, loads of hidden energy. this is very important. its amazing how much you can throw away of a sound without it being noticeable, especially in a mix.

The ozone suite is also very good, except the limiter.

also dont even think about buying a 1500 rack before getting youre acoustics sorted, pointless.

Basically a chain such as limiter>comp>eq>limiter is good.

The limiter at the start is completely contrary to logic, but works, ill tell you why

if you do comp>limiter, the peak will be compressed, while the lower parts wont, unless you turn down the threshold. Therefore the peaks gets trashed while the main part gets compressed.

If you stick the limiter in first, the peaks are limited, bringing them down to the same level, then you can mildly (or otherwise) copress everything. Chuck another limiter at the end to taste if needs be.

try it in wavelab, you can drag the inserts around.

oh and check mono compatibility, very important at the mastering stage. If it sounds shit in mon, you have phase issues which will sound completely random in mono (rigs)

All IMO etc...

Cheers

[daft cunt]

Thanks for that, Paradigm.

[unempty]

Okay, so you've got your tune sounding pretty good.
A/Bs show that its tight. Still not quite there but it hasn't come out of the mastering house.

I'd just throw in a quick tip to give the mastering house two versions of the track.

One with a hint as to where you want the track to go. A subtle bus compressor to glue the mix maybe, hi+low pass filters and perhaps some subtractive eq to get "hifi" ready.

One "clean" with nothing at all on the 2bus. Just bypass the FX in the above version and render it.

This gives the ME the best possible starting point and most leverage to be able to do his best job fastest.

Also, don't mix first and then start messing with the master. Mix into a bus compressor the whole time, so you're familiar with how it handles and sounds. Use master fx as "color" and part of the mix process, rather than starting mess with an already good sounding mix when you're done.

Just some thoughts.
Peace,
-d

[unempty]

Also, as mentioned, don't waste on outboard unless you've treated your room and have very good converters first.

Personally though, I'd rather spend on a good bus compressor first just to haz a flavor. An SSL G clone or maybe an API 2500 fed into some nice iron at the end for flavor and gentle saturation.

ah, dreaming. so simple. cheap to.

[chunkie]

hardware gear adds something that the virtual stuff just cant
its why the vinly sounds 'better' than the same tune on the mp3 you got direct from the label

i had a (now discontinued) TL Audio Fat-1 valve compressor - cost £230 about 4 years ago
and i had my soundcard into the compressor, out to amp & speakers

you could hear the difference, stupidly traded it in for a micro-korg and have since played with waves stuff, the fx in bias peak and those in live - no comparison!

just seen the american version on ebay from ireland starting at £199!

[batfink]

its why the vinly sounds 'better' than the same tune on the mp3 you got direct from the label

hardware is lovely, but when you can get even 80%+ of the 'sound' from software/hardware interfaces like the UAD and at a fraction of the cost of the original, and now classic, hardware then its a no-brainer.

and the reason that vinyl sounds better than MP3 is because MP3 is a lossy format. Compare FLAC files (e.g Pinch - Punisher off Bleep) to Vinyl and the difference will come down to wether you prefer the 'sound' of your soundcards DACs or the 'sound' of your decks/cart/stylus(and potentially mixer).

[future one]

Okay, so you've got your tune sounding pretty good.
A/Bs show that its tight. Still not quite there but it hasn't come out of the mastering house.

WTF do you do with your tune when you mix it down?

I've stopped even putting a master compressor on my tunes and I'm getting a bit of an itch to start building a rack for doing this shit.

I'm thinking of maybe grabbing a TC finalizer 96k ($1500).

Any thoughts?

I've read quite a lot and I'm just plain stumped.
I want some more shine and pressure on my tunes but I can't seem to get anywhere.
Always respect for people's opinions on here.

I've heard very good things about the TC finalizer. Is is digital though...


I run my tunes through my Joe Meek Compressor. Its ok but I'm looking to buy something a bit more high end.

[unempty]

I run my tunes through my Joe Meek Compressor. Its ok but I'm looking to buy something a bit more high end.

http://www.vintagedesign.se/en06/CL1MK2.htm

*drool*

[thesynthesist]

Ok, here's a quiz...

Who knows the true story of Joe Meek?