Food should be regulated like tobacco

[Genevieve]

The libertarian view isn't 'do as you please', it's 'don't innitiate force against others'. You can still meddle with other people and be active in social change for as long as you don't force it on other people coercively. Campaign, inform, be active, boycott all you want. :v

Assuming the N.A.P. wing of libertarianism.

No first come the liberty to live a free life without constant from the government - key gaol. and then without the need for force. "as you please" is merely the wording, perhaps not the best wording.

It's about the non-aggression principle, a.k.a. NAP or the non-innitiation of force. Everything else is argumented from the non-innitation of force. Murray Rothbard argued against the state because it is a compulsory monopoly of force.

Can't find it right now, but I've been looking for an episode of Thomas E. Woods' radio show (an anarcho-capitalist scholar and historian, associated with the Mises Institute, an organization founded to educate on Austrian School economics), where he explains that that's all libertarianism is, 'don't innitiate force against other'. I may try again later.

Most if not all classical liberteistm would object to this because it is a restriction. Morden theist… 50/50 its not the end of the world

All modern libertarians would object to this because taxation is a form of government sanctioned theft and theft is an innitiation of force. I'm a voluntaryist and at 25, I've been libertarian since I was 18.

You may be mixing up classical liberalism and libertarianism, which are two different animals. Murray Rothbard synthesized modern libertarianism by taking one aspect (not the whole thing) from Ayn Rand's Obectivist philosophy, namely the non-aggression principle and melded it with Austrian School economics and influences from American individualist anarchism, which he believed were all compatible with NAP (and he's right).

Liberalism is about liberty, libertarianism is about the non-innitiation of force.

[ultraspatial]

wow everybody flexing their "i took a modern political theories course in my 2nd year at college" muscles in this thread

some should probably have gone the lectures rather than the union bar

not afraid to free the realness, i see

[scspkr99]

I chose the degree I eventually did on the basis of the amount of time it would leave me to do other stuff, registered on a BSC IT realised they wanted 30 hours a week and fucked off to politics where they wanted 8.

[ezza]

i wish i would of done an opinion based degree like politics

my housemate has a slight interest in politics, so can just blag exams without even revising cus its all just backing up opinions. as long as you know a bit of history and watch the news you're bless


learning technical tings and facts are long as fuck

[scspkr99]

I've worked in IT for 20 years almost and an IT degree would have made no difference to my ability to do any of the jobs I've done.

[magma]

I've worked in IT for 20 years almost and an IT degree would have made no difference to my ability to do any of the jobs I've done.

Same here.

I'v never studied politics formally either, I just happen to live in society.

[ultraspatial]

i did. cba to discuss politics in a decent and carefully argumented manner on the internet tho lol

[scspkr99]

Politics was just a means to not do a lot for the 3 years at uni really and I look back now and I knew fuck all then, not much as changed other than me realising it.

[ultraspatial]

yeah sorta the same. i didn't really knew what to study since nothing else was of interest to me. also, admittence was a big factor as well; was more fair, had to take an exam instead of just getting in based on your baccalaureate + high school grades

[nitz]

The libertarian view isn't 'do as you please', it's 'don't innitiate force against others'. You can still meddle with other people and be active in social change for as long as you don't force it on other people coercively. Campaign, inform, be active, boycott all you want. :v

Assuming the N.A.P. wing of libertarianism.

No first come the liberty to live a free life without constant from the government - key gaol. and then without the need for force. "as you please" is merely the wording, perhaps not the best wording.

It's about the non-aggression principle, a.k.a. NAP or the non-innitiation of force. Everything else is argumented from the non-innitation of force. Murray Rothbard argued against the state because it is a compulsory monopoly of force.

Can't find it right now, but I've been looking for an episode of Thomas E. Woods' radio show (an anarcho-capitalist scholar and historian, associated with the Mises Institute, an organization founded to educate on Austrian School economics), where he explains that that's all libertarianism is, 'don't innitiate force against other'. I may try again later.

Most if not all classical liberteistm would object to this because it is a restriction. Morden theist… 50/50 its not the end of the world

All modern libertarians would object to this because taxation is a form of government sanctioned theft and theft is an innitiation of force. I'm a voluntaryist and at 25, I've been libertarian since I was 18.

You may be mixing up classical liberalism and libertarianism, which are two different animals. Murray Rothbard synthesized modern libertarianism by taking one aspect (not the whole thing) from Ayn Rand's Obectivist philosophy, namely the non-aggression principle and melded it with Austrian School economics and influences from American individualist anarchism, which he believed were all compatible with NAP (and he's right).

Liberalism is about liberty, libertarianism is about the non-innitiation of force.

Indeed, i mistakenly wrote liberalism instead of libertarianism. Libertarianism, which i've familiar with regards legal theory (of justice), such as min state, private property, freedom to live without constant. Whereas, liberalism, which I know not much on, i think refer to social stuff, free choice of being gay etc

Yet another classical dyesixia error - in my eyes those two words looked the same. This is not the call you're a dyslexia card - I actually am an awful dyslexia, you only need to read some of my post to see the spelling mistakes and sometimes lack of clarity. Man like me finish off c.w's in a week's advance to i can check it via text to speak etc

[scspkr99]

yeah sorta the same. i didn't really knew what to study since nothing else was of interest to me. also, admittence was a big factor as well; was more fair, had to take an exam instead of just getting in based on your baccalaureate + high school grades

I think most social science students who go to college in their late teens early twenties are similar. I kinda think my education was wasted on someone as ignorant as I was.

[lovelydivot]

I am a "Social Liberal" - not a "Classical Liberal" - absolutely no.

- I believe in protecting the people and resources from unreasonable exploitation.

..and engineering a society that is responsible and invested in every person and life.


I think we actually create a lot of social ills with our systems.
Many of them are selfish and uninspired.


Thank You for listening….

[lovelydivot]

I do believe in a market economy - I'm not a "Socialist"

But I'm not about the world being strictly for those in a position to exploit it.


You wanna see me go furious…
I absolutely cannot stand the fact that certain Christians
want the right to discriminate against homosexuals in the commerce sector…
under the guise of their religious freedom….

I think if you have a problem with a particular persons money...
then you shouldn't be in business.

I'm not about the right to critique a persons lifestyle
because they stumbled upon your store…
That is pure fucking evil - a very bad business practice, and completely unprofessional.
I would be the first to jank back that business license.

and I'm not even gay!

That is where government is absolutely a necessity.

People are fucked up.

I swear to god - If I was president
- I would be drop kicking Arizona square in the chin…and Georgia, and Montana, and Utah...
I would be so far up their butts they'd become gay.

I am so much of a Fed…I'm a straight up busy body yanky carpet bagger fed….

[lovelydivot]

…back to the topic though…

Bad food isn't anywhere near as harmful a cigarettes…
Over 50% of smokers will experience a serious smoking related illness…


Here - I have an analogy for you…

In an etching studio - they use powdered Rosin…
If you breathe powdered rosin…it goes into your lungs and sticks and doesn't ever dislodge…
it's a type of sticky pine resin...
If you breathe enough of it over time - you will die…
It is known and proven - many masters of the art succumbed to it.

In order to use it - you have to follow a procedure…of progressive ventilation…
and - standing out of the room at certain times while it's airborne…
Everyone follows the rules because it's real…
-not because there is a law against it.

If you wanna run in there and snuffle up a huge faceful of it…
No police are going to stop you.

So you can just die of emphysema…

Do you think smokers understand this? REALLY…
or is it truly not stigmatized enough because we like to smoke?
Has the industry done it's duty - in stigmatizing it correctly?

I know I prefer smoking to drinking hands down…but I can't do it anymore.
I get the shakes when I smoke regularly.

What's my point?
Aquatinting an etching is probably more dangerous than smoking if you do it wrong.
And I don't have a problem believing that.

[ultraspatial]

idk if i understood you correctly, but not making products aimed at minorities (be it racial, sexual, religious w/e) isn't discrimination.
say i'm a doll maker, and i only make standard white skinny blonde dolls and for whatever reason i don't want to expand my product line to include black, fat, paraplegic etc dolls. that's my decision and, unless i'm paying someone for it, noone has a say about it. if you take offence to that, that's on you. don't like my products? fine. go buy from someone else, but don't boycott because someone doesn't adhere to your standards of "good business".

[Genevieve]

Discrimination isn't a bad thing though. It's a fundamental right. I discriminate against non-friends, I give my friends a preferential treatment over non-friends.

Without the right to discriminate you have nothing. It's no different from the right to voluntary association.

I don't even understand why someone would want to throw their own money at someone that hates them. "I'm black, you hate black people, now I want you to be forced to take my money and make a living off of it, you dick'.

[rickyarbino]

but don't boycott because someone doesn't adhere to your standards of "good business".

Is that not what buying from someone else implies though?

[ultraspatial]

i meant boycotting in the sense of shaming a company for not selling certain products. obvs not buying/buying from someone else is a form of boycotting. but like gene said, if everyone was forced to make the same products you wouldn't have that option

[rickyarbino]

Not buying from a company that exists to sell goods is effectively shaming it, so not buying because the products you want aren't made by them is shaming them because they don't sell certain products

[lovelydivot]

See - this is exactly the problem I have with delusional country republicans….

You always think you are the business owner being forced to provide beyond your scope…

I'm talking about the unsuspecting gay person - in the market for a cake…
They see a sign for baked goods - they go into state approved business…
and get read and ejected for something personal and private….

If I want my cake to read Congratulations Mark & John….
Why does it have to be anything beyond that…

Mark and John could be twins graduating from high school….
Why do I have to tell the cake writer anything beyond what to write…

I'm paying you for cake - you're in business to make cakes.

If you're in business to be a church - you need to go ahead and say that…
prominently - on the front door next to the no jigga-razi sign

- so we don't make the mistake of patronizing your shit ass church cum bakery.


I swear the pope is gonna love me.