Reasons why a UKIP vote is a good vote

[garethom]

Being realistic, how many people are going to take on the job of politician on a minimum wage?

A few rich conservatives maybe

I did think that a lot of politicians obviously have other money making interests, and could afford to do it, but why take the stress of being an MP for no more gain?

Being realistic, how many people are going to take on the job of politician on a minimum wage?

Probably only those who genuinely want to better the country. Which would go a long way to clearing out the detritus we have clogging the benches currently.

Easy to say that, but if you're trying to feed a family, pay your rent/mortgage on minimum wage, then good luck being an effective MP.

I know it'd be great if we just had some loving, compassionate people who would dedicate their lives to dealing with everybody's problems for minimum wage, but sorry, I just don't see it happening and discussing it is just discussing a pipe dream/

[Forum]

Surely you'd just end up with even more Eton boys who already have family wealth...

[faultier]

not sure why my comment has been ignored but again:

better (ie more involved) citizens > better politicians

[wub]

Easy to say that, but if you're trying to feed a family, pay your rent/mortgage on minimum wage, then good luck being an effective MP.

The reform I mentioned above includes two free lodgings - one designated property in their constituency to be used by whoever is the MP at the time and their family, and their central lodgings in London for when they're attending Parliament.

MPs have told people in the past it's possible to exist on minimum wage, so this would be a good way to prove it. If they're still struggling to feed their family even with free accommodation taken into account, then clearly minimum wage isn't sufficient so they would likely move towards raising it, which would benefit the country as a whole.

[DiegoSapiens]

yeah i have no problem in politicians wining good money, is a very stressing job no good guy in the matter would accept it having a nice job. But i want the double of penal charges in corruption and political crimes as they have a big responsibility role in society and they should be example for the rest of the country

[scspkr99]

Increases the potential for corruption I'd guess and also prefers people from money.

[NickUndercover]

Pay politicians more
or
Reform the entire system.

I know which one seems easier to me

Just this year Tunisia managed to pass a democratic secular Constitution after a peaceful revolution and 3 years of hard work. They wanted it, they got it.

[Genevieve]

People rejecting any possibility of changing the system in their favour because of their own cynism seems worse to me than naive idealism, which at least offers a remote chance.

I don't like the way people do murder, we need to reform murder. Not end it. No, we need to reform it.

[DiegoSapiens]

Increases the potential for corruption I'd guess and also prefers people from money.

nah, if some guy fights for a politician job that is bad payed is because he just want pure power

[scspkr99]

nah, if some guy fights for a politician job that is bad payed is because he just want pure power

With power comes what?

[DiegoSapiens]

money? but money is a representation of power.
i refer to a guy that already has money that fights for a charge leaving a better job just because addiction of power. i know some friends of my father like that, utter scum

[NickUndercover]

People rejecting any possibility of changing the system in their favour because of their own cynism seems worse to me than naive idealism, which at least offers a remote chance.

I don't like the way people do murder, we need to reform murder. Not end it. No, we need to reform it.

Incredibly pedantic and stupid statement, I would expect more coming from you. The laws incriminating murder are not only there to punish it, but to prevent it by intimidation too, and whether you like it or not they've done wonders in preventing crimes (Just because litterally every murder that still happens is reported in the news doesn't mean there wouln't be more if we did nothing). You can't erase human nature but you can condition it as best you can, and if corruption and political crimes were as well defined and as well repressed as murder we might get somewhere.

You sound like you need to cheer up. May I suggest you take some time off this evening and watch It's a wonderful life ?

[magma]

Being realistic, how many people are going to take on the job of politician on a minimum wage?

Probably only those who genuinely want to better the country. Which would go a long way to clearing out the detritus we have clogging the benches currently.

The answer is almost zero though... and the ones that would are just as likely to be chasing power as at the moment. Probably largely retirees and rich folk that can afford to 'devote their lives to service'. Being a politician is a hellish job, no matter how much we hate them as 'civilians', it's a fucking nightmare that usually ends in being hated by half the country... nobody is taking on that sort of commitment without being paid for it somehow. If you take away the money, it'll likely be idealistic name-makers stepping in putting legacy ahead of sense. Do you really want a Parliament stuffed with people who have either already made their money and can afford to "retire to Parliament" or that are stressed over their own finances and living cheque-to-cheque with the rest of us? Neither seem great candidates for crewing the Good Ship Britain.

I'm not sure the answer comes in paying them any more though - politicians should be in line with business to a degree, but certainly not in line with the inflated finance salaries of a lot of their peers. I think I'd lean to a model where politicians salaries were set at a local level by their constituencies. After all, a member of Parliament is, first and foremost, their constituents' representative - national issues are the PM and Cabinet's job, but individual MPs should be focussed on their primary job, which is to translate the wants of their local constituents into the national debate. The public see or at least percieve far too many MPs getting to Westminster and then entirely forgetting how and why they got there... local accountability would go a long way to making the people feel more connected to their representative.

[Genevieve]

People rejecting any possibility of changing the system in their favour because of their own cynism seems worse to me than naive idealism, which at least offers a remote chance.

I don't like the way people do murder, we need to reform murder. Not end it. No, we need to reform it.

Incredibly pedantic and stupid statement, I would expect more coming from you. The laws incriminating murder are not only there to punish it, but to prevent it by intimidation too, and whether you like it or not they've done wonders in preventing crimes (Just because litterally every murder that still happens is reported in the news doesn't mean there wouln't be more if we did nothing). You can't erase human nature but you can condition it as best you can, and if corruption and political crimes were as well defined and as well repressed as murder we might get somewhere.

You sound like you need to cheer up. May I suggest you take some time off this evening and watch It's a wonderful life ?

The point I was making was that you can't reform something that is bad in its nature. Murder is bad in its nature, stop doing murder. Politics' nature is bad, stop doing politics. Look for alternatives. I don't understand how 95% of that post even relates to what I'm saying, especially the bit about me not being cheerful enough. It was an analogy that said 'if it's broke, fix it. If there's no way in hell that it'll work, look for a different solution'. That's not cynicism, that's realism. I've made no secret of what I would like to see in place of politics on this forum

[scspkr99]

money? but money is a representation of power.
i refer to a guy that already has money that fights for a charge leaving a better job just because addiction of power. i know some friends of my father like that, utter scum

I think my problem with paying politicians less is that you encourage those that are either too rich to be bothered or those not rich enough to be corrupted. I don't advocate anyone living on the minimum wage but why would people give better paying jobs up to do politics?

[NickUndercover]

People rejecting any possibility of changing the system in their favour because of their own cynism seems worse to me than naive idealism, which at least offers a remote chance.

I don't like the way people do murder, we need to reform murder. Not end it. No, we need to reform it.

Incredibly pedantic and stupid statement, I would expect more coming from you. The laws incriminating murder are not only there to punish it, but to prevent it by intimidation too, and whether you like it or not they've done wonders in preventing crimes (Just because litterally every murder that still happens is reported in the news doesn't mean there wouln't be more if we did nothing). You can't erase human nature but you can condition it as best you can, and if corruption and political crimes were as well defined and as well repressed as murder we might get somewhere.

You sound like you need to cheer up. May I suggest you take some time off this evening and watch It's a wonderful life ?

The point I was making was that you can't reform something that is bad in its nature. Murder is bad in its nature, stop doing murder. Politics' nature is bad, stop doing politics. Look for alternatives. I don't understand how 95% of my posts even relates to what I'm saying, especially the bit about me not being cheerful enough. It was an analogy that said 'if it's broke, fix it. If there's no way in hell that it'll work, look for a different solution'. That's not cynicism, that's realism. I've made no sexret of what I would like to see in place of politics on this forum

Oh, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Let's just agree to disagree then. I believe we can reform current politics in a way that will work, you don't.

[DiegoSapiens]

oh wait i wasn't saying to pay them less, little bit of misunderstanding in here. any way, is they get corrupted is because they want, even the ones that get payed less wins good money

[scspkr99]

Ah right sound. My bad for skimming the thread. I'm kinda with Genevieve on the shitness of politics tbh but I'm slightly more optimistic.

[Dystinkt]

Being realistic, how many people are going to take on the job of politician on a minimum wage?

A few rich conservatives maybe

I did think that a lot of politicians obviously have other money making interests, and could afford to do it, but why take the stress of being an MP for no more gain?

Being realistic, how many people are going to take on the job of politician on a minimum wage?

Probably only those who genuinely want to better the country. Which would go a long way to clearing out the detritus we have clogging the benches currently.

Easy to say that, but if you're trying to feed a family, pay your rent/mortgage on minimum wage, then good luck being an effective MP.

I know it'd be great if we just had some loving, compassionate people who would dedicate their lives to dealing with everybody's problems for minimum wage, but sorry, I just don't see it happening and discussing it is just discussing a pipe dream/

How hard is it to be an MP really though? is it harder than working 12 hour night shifts in a factory sweating your arse off doing the most menial lifting and carrying you can imagine? I've done that job mate, and I've done it for minimum wage as well. If a factory can find someone like me thats willing to do an utter shit job like that for shit money, then there sure as hell won't be an issue finding people to be MPs. Your all making MPs out to be incredibly high and mighty with a really hard job, but the fact is this, compared to the real world, being an MP is a fucking easy ride compared to any other prospective minimum wage employment out there, and if you can't see that then your experience of the lower end of the working world is probably nonexistent.

[garethom]

Physically, it's not as hard, no, but as a factory worker, you aren't making decisions that affect millions of people. Pay isn't just about how physically demanding a job is.