Anti homeless 'spikes'

[scspkr99]

For some it's a choice for others it's a result of some breakdown in their life, for a few it may just be financial but financial causes of homelessness are the smallest unique factor, it often complements other factors such as drug or alcohol abuse, mental illness and the like but there are, in the UK and Ireland, services that protect people from being evicted to the streets. So when someone does end up there there are usually other factors, the ones mentioned being the most common, these are the factors, along with young people running away, that often make it more difficult for people to access services, to know where to go.

Add to this that having a home isn't just about having a bed it's about having security, it's about having a key it's being able to plan your life around where you are living, it's often necessary to claim entitlements these aren't resolved by putting someone on a couch, people need support and often therapy or treatment.

[scspkr99]

No not at all. I'm pointing out the double standard in those calling how fucked up these spikes are who then wouldn't want a homeless person near them and aren't even offering them all the help that they could give them.

Of course offering someone a roof over their heads doesn't end the issue of homelesness. But it does help a homeless person. It helps a homeless person more than installing spikes does. That's what I've been saying all along; you can't demand others to fix the problem if you yourself aren't willing to help with anything at all. Individuals may not be able to end homelesness, but they sure as fuck could improve the quality of the lives of many homeless people. I feel like you're avoiding this.

It may help the homeless person, it doesn't help the homeless person who doesn't want your couch and it may not help the homeless person who's got issues with addiction or mental illness.

[m8son666]

So instead of giving a homeless person a warm bed to sleep in and some food (provided they accept it of course), it would be best to ignore them and hope they get some therapy?

[scspkr99]

Yeah I'm not really into being trolled on this so I'm done.

[m8son666]

[sigbowls]

spikes where homeless sleep and people renting sheds? london is a messed up place.

theres homeless villages there though so thats good

[Genevieve]

it doesn't help the homeless person who doesn't want your couch

Personal responsibility. There's only so much you can do to try and improve their situation if they don't want to themselves. You can't move the blame on the rest of society when there's tiny things they can improve on.

and it may not help the homeless person who's got issues with addiction or mental illness.

It may not help them get rid of their drug addiction, but it gives them a bed they might not have otherwise had.

If I lost my leg in an accident, someone being kind enough to push me around in a w heelchair might not give me my leg back, but it still helps. Even if it's temporary.

Most of what you're saying in this thread is like saying "I litter, because not littering doesn't end polution"

[scspkr99]

Personal responsibility. There's only so much you can do to try and improve their situation if they don't want to themselves. You can't move the blame on the rest of society when there's tiny things they can improve on.

It may not help them get rid of their drug addiction, but it gives them a bed they might not have otherwise had.

If I lost my leg in an accident, someone being kind enough to push me around in a w heelchair might not give me my leg back, but it still helps. Even if it's temporary.

I'm not blaming the rest of society and outside of making a comment regarding safety haven't elaborated a position on these spikes. However people have genuine reasons for homelessness and if we wish to tackle it, you may not which is fair enough, then we should consider what best helps the people subject to it. If they have a drug addiction it's quite likely that your assistance will come back to bite you and if there's a mental illness you won't know.

However I am generally in favour of people putting their money where their mouth is but I would fall short of suggesting that someone invite someone they don't know to stay on their couch, one of the advantages of not being homeless is safety and having people you don't know in your space compromises your safety. It's a call too far and it's perfectly reasonable to suggest that I should pay more tax or more voluntary contributions in order to assist the homeless but stop short of offering them a bed.

The problems the homeless face are structural and require structural solutions.

Most of what you're saying in this thread is like saying "I litter, because not littering doesn't end polution"

No it's because knowing a little of how homelessness works I understand the idea people who care about the homeless should offer a homeless person a bed is ridiculous.

[Genevieve]

However people have genuine reasons for homelessness and if we wish to tackle it, you may not which is fair enough, then we should consider what best helps the people subject to it.

No, you're putting words in my mouth.

However I am generally in favour of people putting their money where their mouth is but I would fall short of suggesting that someone invite someone they don't know to stay on their couch, one of the advantages of not being homeless is safety and having people you don't know in your space compromises your safety.

Yes and that's my point and that's what I was trying to get oyu to say. Homeless people are potentially dangerous and you don't want them near you, hence, these spikes are a precautionary measure. They don't stop homelesness, but neither are the people who are outraged at this and they wouldn't want a homeless person camping out at their front door the way the owners of those buildings don't. So their outrage is hypocritical.

[scspkr99]

No, you're putting words in my mouth.

What words did I put in your mouth?

Yes and that's my point and that's what I was trying to get oyu to say. Homeless people are potentially dangerous and you don't want them near you, hence, these spikes are a precautionary measure. They don't stop homelesness, but neither are the people who are outraged at this and they wouldn't want a homeless person camping out at their front door the way the owners of those buildings don't. So their outrage is hypocritical.

Given what I didn't say about the spikes you may have been better served doing something else.

I am going to point out the flaw here however, what if I would not want a homeless guy living outside my apartment block but would prefer to have a homeless guy outside my apartment block than these spikes, can you explain how the outrage is hypocritical? Like you've gone a long way to make a point that doesn't really stand up.

[sigbowls]

put the land to use like plant pot plants there or something

[nousd]

better than spiking their food
or otherwise disposing of street-dwellers permanently

I would think it morally imperative,
if I felt it necessary to spike my territory
that I at least contribute to providing shelter elsewhere.

If a person seeks shelter on my property
it indicates either their desperation or that part of my property provides an acceptable degree of security
Either way, I'd only put up the spikes after making sure another place is available for them
AND
after I'd talked to the person to explain what I was doing
which might obviate the need to install spikes anyway.

Acting to possibly condemn somebody to sleep in the rain or whatever...
I know I can't help everybody and maintain my self-centred lifestyle
but I can't absolve myself from some responsibility within the jurisdiction of my doorstep.

Even if I was intimidated or frightened
I could find someone (neighbour, copper, butler) to do the liaising.

Anyway, spikes are too expensive & would brand me a control freak
whose house probably warrants burglarizing.
There are less obvious ways to make a space uninhabitable.

[scspkr99]

put the land to use like plant pot plants there or something

dublin city council did this where the homeless were sleeping close to hot air vents.

I think the pots is a better idea because it less obviously stigmatises the homeless.

[sigbowls]

put a coffin there from the graveyard, makes a nice homeless bed and you dont know there there

[scspkr99]

TBF I have more of an issue with Dublin City Council doing it than I do a private landlord given they are supposed to be a part of the solution and they could have spent the money more constructively dealing with the issue of sleeping rough

[Trichome]

No not at all. I'm pointing out the double standard in those calling how fucked up these spikes are who then wouldn't want a homeless person near them and aren't even offering them all the help that they could give them.

Dunno if that's aimed at me but I am currently living in a bnb and before 2 weeks ago I had been homeless for 2 months.
I help homeless regularly, give them food, just sit and chat with them, etc. (just because i know what its like. most homeless people I know want to work, be productive and a member of society, but being homeless puts you in a mindset of self-doubt that is very hard to escape from) Homeless people are generalised as this evil group of druggie tramps that beg steal and hurt...
I've let my friend stay at mine for 2 months while he was homeless, gave him all the help he needed until he got back on his feet.

I think homelessness would be a much smaller problem if there was more support. The only reason I'm not still homeless now is because of my age.

[m8son666]

I've let my friend stay at mine for 2 months while he was homeless, gave him all the help he needed until he got back on his feet.

Sorry m8 apparently you actually didn't help him and he would of been better off on the streets.

[OGLemon]

I think that homelessness leads to a sense of being unwanted by society which is why many homeless people turn to drugs in order to change their depressing reality.

[Trichome]

lol to a degree i actually agree with that. you don't really feel homeless when you're sofa surfing, I didn't fully realise my situation until I couldn't stay at my mates any more. you don't want to be comfortable if you're homeless, you need to be pushed towards sorting yourself out.

and spot on OGLemon.

[jaydot]

This would never happen under UKIP.