Assisted suicide

[scspkr99]

we already effectively end life using pain management, I'm generally in favour though there was an interesting paper I read some time ago that posed it differently to others, by enabling a choice we essentially force people to choose which they currently don't have to.

[ezza]

i never though about the idea of just giving them even crazier drugs

thats pretty good

surely having an unlimited supply to medical grade heroin would be better than dying, and sort out most of your problems

[m8son666]

they should go through a serious process where they have to convince multiple docs/judges etc that they aren't mentally ill

What, so if they are terminally ill but also judged to be mentally ill then they shouldn't be offered this option? Why does they mental health of a terminally ill person matter? I expect most terminally ill would fit the diagnosis of depression.

for mentally ill people, hell no. i'd rather they were treated with serious euphoriants like ket or something than allowed to commit suicide (now there's a thought).

This is often what i notice about this kind of discussion, it usually boils down to selfishness. 'I'd rather' why would you rather, how does it effect you? Is it just because it fits into your ethics and morality? If someone wants to die it should be up to no-one else apart from them imo, obviously it shouldn't/wouldn't be as easy as walking into somewhere and in an hour you would be dead, it would/should be a decision made over several months. In my experience, suicidal thoughts and feelings are rather fleeting and although feel so strong and insurmountable at the time days/weeks later you realise how ridiculous they may be, so obviously this should be a prolonged decision.

i think anyone can get better with time, and since depression isn't primarily life-threatening, there's a chance researchers might come up with a cure/treatment for it within the patient's lifetime.

What about people who have suffered from severe depression their whole life, like 30-40 years? Is it really worth living through hell for so long just in the vague hope that you might one day get better? A hope i would add that the person couldn't fathom. Surely the second sentence applies for terminal illnesses as well, yet you support assisted suicide for them?

Depression and similar mental illnesses are incredibly life threatening, the suicide attempt rate for people with BPD is around 60-70%. If people are going to kill themselves why not allow for it to happen in a comforting environment surrounded by family instead of forcing these people to spend their last hours on earth with intense feelings of guilt and isolation. Also with the risk of a suicide attempt going wrong and leaving the person even worse off than before?

i'd like to know what the median age of people with treatment-resistant depression is, my intuition tells me it's waaaaay skewed towards the young end of the spectrum. i just have the feeling a doctor would diagnose a 18-25 y/o with "treatment-resistant depression" cause he didn't respond to paxil and zoloft and now the kid can legally commit suicide, which is ridiculous.

Obviously it would be a last resort and not a valid option after trying one type of antidepressant. It would be for people who have tried everything, all medications, ECT, therapy etc.

if someone's truly treatment-resistant, treat them with fucking oxycontin or methadone or whatever if you have to, better than dying

Better than dying for who? For the patient who would live doped up to their eyes for the rest of time, unable to live anything resembling a normal life. Or for you, as it would better fit your morals?

[magma]

What, so if they are terminally ill but also judged to be mentally ill then they shouldn't be offered this option? Why does they mental health of a terminally ill person matter? I expect most terminally ill would fit the diagnosis of depression.

Because you can't take someone's life from them without a capital punishment sentence or CONSENT. A mentally ill person may not be able to reliably give properly considered consent... in the same way that a psych nurse can't go around convincing his patients to fuck him, he can't go around convincing them they want to die either. Common sense, really.

[scspkr99]

We do assist people in dying though and the question becomes what about those who are unable to consent.

[m8son666]

What, so if they are terminally ill but also judged to be mentally ill then they shouldn't be offered this option? Why does they mental health of a terminally ill person matter? I expect most terminally ill would fit the diagnosis of depression.

Because you can't take someone's life from them without a capital punishment sentence or CONSENT. A mentally ill person may not be able to reliably give properly considered consent... in the same way that a psych nurse can't go around convincing his patients to fuck him, he can't go around convincing them they want to die either. Common sense, really.

Ok, so you don't see us ever giving the option to the mentally ill?

[AxeD]

This discussion pops up every now and then, we are on assisted suicide for kids under 12
at the moment.
I'm personally for it at any age. Although there are a lot of -frankly scary- cases of people who wanted to pull the plug, but ended up overcoming depression.

It's completely case dependent, especially for mentally ill people. The option has already been given numerous times.

[dickman69]

He was doing some pretty weird stuff too - like...
burying himself in the backyard up to his neck…
Because he needed to "commune with mother earth"
- stuff like that…

and I personally - don't consider that to be too wacky of a concept…

Yea, you wouldnt lol

[magma]

What, so if they are terminally ill but also judged to be mentally ill then they shouldn't be offered this option? Why does they mental health of a terminally ill person matter? I expect most terminally ill would fit the diagnosis of depression.

Because you can't take someone's life from them without a capital punishment sentence or CONSENT. A mentally ill person may not be able to reliably give properly considered consent... in the same way that a psych nurse can't go around convincing his patients to fuck him, he can't go around convincing them they want to die either. Common sense, really.

Ok, so you don't see us ever giving the option to the mentally ill?

Sadly not. Even though I do agree it could be argued to reduce overall suffering in society, it has to be acknowledged that life is often incredibly precious to its owner, mentally ill people can be highly suggestible and change their mind a lot and it's probably better to be safe than sorry in this sort of situation.

[AxeD]

It's case dependent dudemen. There have been several cases of euthanasia for mentally ill people.

[scspkr99]

What about people in a permanent vegetative state?

[Genevieve]

What about people in a permanent vegetative state?

[OGLemon]

it has to be acknowledged that life is often incredibly precious to its owner

Do you mean the life of the individual or the concept of life in general?

[magma]

it has to be acknowledged that life is often incredibly precious to its owner

Do you mean the life of the individual or the concept of life in general?

The first one. I'm not sure the concept of life has an owner... it's quite... old and... ubiquitous.

[magma]

It's case dependent dudemen. There have been several cases of euthanasia for mentally ill people.

Well, obviously it depends on the illness. "Mental Illness" is a very broad term indeed. I expect it's slightly easier to trust the consent of a person with Tourettes than it is a person with severe paranoid psychosis.

Here's those two words again... common sense.

[OGLemon]

Well what I'm thinking about has to do with the military and how soldiers would, and do, sacrifice their lives for the lives of loved ones. Also in some cultures death is viewed in a positive manner and as a way of redeeming lost honour, ie. seppuku.

[magma]

Absolutely, but I don't think you can base any sort of law on the assumption that everyone feels like that. People think about life and death in all manner of ways... the best thing is to leave any decisions pertaining to either up to the individual. If you can't get a reliable answer from the individual because their mind isn't in great shape then you maintain the status quo and let nature take its course.

[scspkr99]

Sorry to ask again like but that means that people in a permanently vegetative state should be left in it?

[hubb]

I think it's something a society has to take in as a necessity.

I have a bigger issue with something common like donorship, where a lot of cases show that 'dead' people are kept alive for harvesting. It's very common and terrifying.
Sometimes the family are even used to pay the bills despite the patient being braindead and a law that states the hospital has to tell the family.

[magma]

Sorry to ask again like but that means that people in a permanently vegetative state should be left in it?

That's definitely the most difficult judgement call to make... all I know is that I've got a signed bit of paper in my files at home saying I'd want my machine switched off if it came to that. If somebody's never expressed a preference, I personally think you've got to leave them be. The whole thing's torturous though, I wouldn't wish that situation on anyone.