Ferguson riots

[nowaysj]

Was that a real caller? I didn't listen. I read the summary of what they said, and from what I've put together that is very similar to what I put together from what I've read from various sources.

What do you mean a "real life caller?" She called into like a radio show I think, and then the tape was aired on CNN.

Like if she is really the officer's friend, if she is a real person, or maybe a fellow police officer, a DOJ agent, some other private or governmental operative. Remember in Kiev, the snipers opened fire on the protesters AND the police. The aim is to control and direct hostilities against two opposing sides. Who can say if this is part of that tactic? Maybe she is just a real life friend of the officer.

For example, the autopsy showed that MB was shot in the top of the head, indicating that he either had his hands up and his head down, surrendering, or that he was "charging" at the police officer as if he was about to tackle him like a strong safety.

Or that he was falling forward after/while being shot. Shooters are trained to shoot until the threat is neutralized. That can take many rounds, and why handguns are designed to hold 16/17 rounds. People don't just drop immediately when shot. Especially when they are high/drunk. I understand much of your firearms experience likely comes from film/tv/video games.

Second, the autopsy showed that he had traces of marijuana in his system. It's obviously completely ridiculous that Michael Brown would first run away from the cop, turn back, see the cop pointing his gun at him, and for no reason, suddenly decide to charge towards the cop like an animal. This would make no sense as charging towards a cop who is pointing his gun at you means almost certain death. It's basically a form of suicide. The only way to patch up this flaw in the story is to play up the marijuana thing, claiming he was "out of his mind".

As a prolific drug user, you must admit you get up to some objectively irrational behavior when high. If you don't admit it, I may have to check my pm's.

Fox News helped out with this talking point: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/autopsy-doct ... act-crazy/

Dude, again, get real. I have seen people do some CRAZY shit on weed. If you subscribe to the movie notion that weed makes you like lay down and peace out... I don't know, get real. It's becoming my mantra. I saw this dude bend this steering wheel once, he was fresh out of prison (and had crossed state lines) and was screaming, "I'm not going back, I'M NOT GOING BACK!" Holy fuck - I thought I was going to be on the receiving end of a bullet flurry from popo.

You should really listen to the CNN phone call from the link I posted. It's the officer's story.

Yeah, I should, Jizzman is already standing over me in a threatening way though.

Also, I think your point about Trayvon is huge. If this turns out to be another fluke, it's going to be devastating for the black community. The protests right now are a manifestation of the collective frustration the black community currently has with the police, political system, etc. If MB wasn't an unjustified killing, there are probably dozens of other examples of wrongdoings by the cops that each protester could point to. That's why they're protesting. And I don't blame them at all. They need a fucking win for once.

This is pretty perverse. People are organizing in the street demanding the officer's death, and they need a win? That is a win? Ah, I'm done talking about this for a while. I'm very late on something.

[dickman69]

this one among others

EVEN IF he was fighting with him in the window of his car, there's absolutely no excuse to shoot him when he retreats and then raises his arms

but then there is the guy at the video who says he came back to him?




why dont they have cameras on those cop cars really tho

[nowaysj]

I used a hand gun in self defense against a dude that looked and acted quite a bit like MB, a dude that was either psychotic or on pcp.

Not quite sure what you're getting at here, as MB wasn't known to be psychotic, was not psychotic earlier that day, and the toxicology report showed him to have traces of marijuana - no PCP. So I have no idea what you're point is here.

I am unaware that the toxicology report has been finished. MB moments before was choking somebody, and supposedly decked the officer in the face for which medical treatment was rendered. That behavior indicates a dangerous and unpredictable level of violent behavior, that can easily be deadly.

You guys who support Michael Brown and condemn that police officer, I just don't think you are dealing with reality. I think you're projecting your desire for how you want the world to be. I definitely want the world to be peaceful. There are so many interesting things happening, spending our time and energy on defense sucks. But get real, I'm confident that most of you would have fired on Michael Brown if you were in his circumstance. If you deny that, in my opinion, you are denying the truth. Denying the truth is almost always dangerous.

I agree with you that if MB, who is probably physically larger than the cop, was truly charging at him with the perceived intent to kill the cop, then the cop had the right to shoot. Although, 6-8 shots is very excessive. If MB was 35 feet away from the car, the cop could have at least tried to shoot him in the legs before going to his upper body, but I suppose you can't prosecute somebody for doing their job poorly.

I really have to do something else, but I can't abide this ignorance. The officer did beyond what he was trained to do. In most shootings, a stressed shooter hits their target around 12% of the time. What was his percentage of hits? You can read about other officer involved shootings where the police just spray innocent people. Not in this case. But what is it? Was it 35 feet, or did he shoot him at point blank range? I've heard both. Perhaps the engagement began at 35 and ended up close? Shooters, both officers and citizens are trained to shoot until the threat is neutralized. The notion that you can shoot someone in the knee is just some dumb fantasy that someone who has absolutely no experience with firearms says. Take a moment to research this before you expound on the professional competency of the officer.

However, you're entire argument presupposes that MB was indeed charging towards the cop, and I believe that's a fabrication by the police department and conservative media, but we will see. If MB was not charging towards the cop, then your argument is irrelevant.

So you disbelieve the witnesses who confirm this? Fair enough. Yes my argument presupposes that MB was a threat to the officer, but not necessarily that he was charging. I do believe MB was approaching the officer. Do I think the officer shot him in the back like some witness say? No. Do I think the officer shot him while he was on his knees laying down surrendering, no.

I think MB was facing the officer with his hands down. From what I've read about the wounds, they'd be in the tricep, and not the bicep if the arms were up in the hands up posture. I don't necessarily think MB had to have been head down charging the officer to receive that top wound. He very well could have been hit while falling, which would be consistent with the officer's account, witnesses, and the officer's training. Again, no one is trained to kneecap an assailant. They are trained to keep firing until the threat is neutralized.

[nowaysj]

I will say that if there is video of MB kneeling down hands up and the officer approaches him and fires into him 6 times, that is definitely some form of homicide. Is that really what you think happened, that the officer got decked, so was mad, and decided to execute MB right in the middle of the street, in broad daylight, while MB was passively kneeling down?

[DrGatineau]

Second, the autopsy showed that he had traces of marijuana in his system. It's obviously completely ridiculous that Michael Brown would first run away from the cop, turn back, see the cop pointing his gun at him, and for no reason, suddenly decide to charge towards the cop like an animal. This would make no sense as charging towards a cop who is pointing his gun at you means almost certain death. It's basically a form of suicide. The only way to patch up this flaw in the story is to play up the marijuana thing, claiming he was "out of his mind".

As a prolific drug user, you must admit you get up to some objectively irrational behavior when high. If you don't admit it, I may have to check my pm's.

Lol, I think you're confusing me with Agent47, but anyone who's smoked weed can attest that it usually causes a slight amount of anxiety/tension/paranoia, and if you're in a situation where there is police or where your life is in danger, it will almost surely cause paranoia / a desire for safety. Weed activates some very primal funcitons - it makes you hungry, tired, slight aphrodisiac, etc. It's a very pro-survival, non-destructive drug. The cannabinoid neurotransmitter system is a pretty ancient one that developed very early in evolution (from what I remember from biology class). In other words, weed almost invariably causes people to avoid risky situations. Charging at someone with their gun pointed at you is basically asking to be shot. I don't see anyone doing that after smoking weed. However the autopsy didn't even say he was high, it just said he had been high at some point in the last 30 days.

Also, I think your point about Trayvon is huge. If this turns out to be another fluke, it's going to be devastating for the black community. The protests right now are a manifestation of the collective frustration the black community currently has with the police, political system, etc. If MB wasn't an unjustified killing, there are probably dozens of other examples of wrongdoings by the cops that each protester could point to. That's why they're protesting. And I don't blame them at all. They need a fucking win for once.

This is pretty perverse. People are organizing in the street demanding the officer's death, and they need a win? That is a win? Ah, I'm done talking about this for a while. I'm very late on something.

Protesting in the street is not a win. I'm saying they need a win in the justice system. These cases always seem to come down to "well, we know the shooter did something wrong, but there's just not enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he's guilty of murder". Fuck that. Statistically speaking, it seems impossible that all of these cases never find the white man guilty but always find the black man guilty (with the exception of the rich & famous OJ Simpson). They need a win in terms of justice is what I meant to say.

[dickman69]

i dont think him being high had anything to do w this but...


"weed causes ppl to avoid risky situations"

they were walking in the middle of the street lol

[DrGatineau]

i dont think him being high had anything to do w this but...


"weed causes ppl to avoid risky situations"

they were walking in the middle of the street lol

that's not that risky of a situation... it didn't seem like it was like, an extremely busy intersection or a highway or something. it looks like a relatively quiet residential side street. not very risky imo

[dickman69]

yea w/ 2 sidewalks on either side

[nowaysj]

Only white people use the sidewalk, get real.

I can see some type of hilarious soul destroying meme coming out of this.

[DrGatineau]

i mean if there are no cars around it, that's pretty safe to me. you just move to the other side when a car comes.

but as you said drugs were probably not a factor and i agree with you.

[nowaysj]

Lol, I think you're confusing me with Agent47

Oh, you're going to make me do it aren't you! Haha, I'm sure you don't even remember.

but anyone who's smoked weed can attest that it usually causes a slight amount of anxiety/tension/paranoia, and if you're in a situation where there is police or where your life is in danger, it will almost surely cause paranoia / a desire for safety. Weed activates some very primal funcitons - it makes you hungry, tired, slight aphrodisiac, etc. It's a very pro-survival, non-destructive drug. The cannabinoid neurotransmitter system is a pretty ancient one that developed very early in evolution (from what I remember from biology class). In other words, weed almost invariably causes people to avoid risky situations. Charging at someone with their gun pointed at you is basically asking to be shot. I don't see anyone doing that after smoking weed. However the autopsy didn't even say he was high, it just said he had been high at some point in the last 30 days.

I've seen weed have a variety of effects on people. At the minimum, whatever direction they go in, they become unstable. Like I said, I've seen some highly non-pro-survival behavior (in an objective sense, I have no doubt that the dude I mentioned earlier thought driving the car into the police was pro-survival).

Also, I think your point about Trayvon is huge. If this turns out to be another fluke, it's going to be devastating for the black community. The protests right now are a manifestation of the collective frustration the black community currently has with the police, political system, etc. If MB wasn't an unjustified killing, there are probably dozens of other examples of wrongdoings by the cops that each protester could point to. That's why they're protesting. And I don't blame them at all. They need a fucking win for once.

This is pretty perverse. People are organizing in the street demanding the officer's death, and they need a win? That is a win? Ah, I'm done talking about this for a while. I'm very late on something.

Protesting in the street is not a win. I'm saying they need a win in the justice system. These cases always seem to come down to "well, we know the shooter did something wrong, but there's just not enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he's guilty of murder". Fuck that. Statistically speaking, it seems impossible that all of these cases never find the white man guilty but always find the black man guilty (with the exception of the rich & famous OJ Simpson). They need a win in terms of justice is what I meant to say.

It is not a team sport. Every incidence is not part of some racial narrative. People are individuals, in individual circumstances. Zimmerman was legally justified in shooting Trayvon. That was a positive outcome for black people, for all people. I know a lot of black people were totally and easily mislead along with the childlike white liberals into believing that Trayvon was an innocent 12 year old who wasn't into hard narcotic use and dealing, and that Zimmerman was a white dude with a hatred for black people, which again was not the case. People were manipulated into believing that Trayvon was denied justice in the legal system, but that is not the case. Everyone should rejoice that justice was served, and the right to self-defense was affirmed.

There are all kinds of systemic as well as particular racial problems with the justice system, but if you inform yourself on these sensational, manipulative ploys you will easily see what is really going on. But instead, you so want to believe that the black kid just can't catch a break, and that it is the police that are out destroying the black community rather than a coordinated full spectrum attack. I know that comes from compassion and is laudable, but there are real problems, there is real evil operating in our country and around the world. It is not random, or accidental, or motivated self interest, it is Evil, capital E, and people are suffering, dying, parents are losing their kids, and kids are losing their parents, most people are becoming poorer and poorer, and all of our societies are breaking down. Ray, Jags, we're next. Our streets are already starting to look like the third world. It is happening now. Destitute people at the end of their rope with guns in their faces. And shit has not really gone off yet. It is set to go.

[Phigure]

Zimmerman was legally justified in shooting Trayvon. That was a positive outcome for black people, for all people. I know a lot of black people were totally and easily mislead along with the childlike white liberals into believing that Trayvon was an innocent 12 year old who wasn't into hard narcotic use and dealing, and that Zimmerman was a white dude with a hatred for black people, which again was not the case. People were manipulated into believing that Trayvon was denied justice in the legal system, but that is not the case. Everyone should rejoice that justice was served, and the right to self-defense was affirmed.

this is absolutely disgusting tbh dude

also fyi even the medical examiner in the zimmerman case has come out now and said that prosecutors were trying to throw the case and told him to "shut up" about a lot of things

[nowaysj]

Zimmerman was legally justified in shooting Trayvon. That was a positive outcome for black people, for all people. I know a lot of black people were totally and easily mislead along with the childlike white liberals into believing that Trayvon was an innocent 12 year old who wasn't into hard narcotic use and dealing, and that Zimmerman was a white dude with a hatred for black people, which again was not the case. People were manipulated into believing that Trayvon was denied justice in the legal system, but that is not the case. Everyone should rejoice that justice was served, and the right to self-defense was affirmed.

this is absolutely disgusting tbh dude

I'll wait here until you're done with this racist pandering.

[Phigure]

id be saying the same thing if trayvon was a white kid

i mean yeah theres the obvious character assassination and trying to portray the victim as a thug, which you see in every one of these incidents, but ultimately, it's completely irrelevant. no one deserves to die, regardless of whether theyre into "hard narcotic use and dealing" or not

zimmerman pursued trayvon even after being told not to by the police
trayvon was unarmed and posed no credible threat to zimmerman
zimmerman has repeatedly shown that hes violent, threatening both his exwife and girlfriend by pointing guns in their faces

[nowaysj]

id be saying the same thing if trayvon was a white kid

i mean yeah theres the obvious character assassination and trying to portray the victim as a thug, which you see in every one of these incidents, but ultimately, it's completely irrelevant. no one deserves to die, regardless of whether theyre into "hard narcotic use and dealing" or not

zimmerman pursued trayvon even after being told not to by the police
trayvon was unarmed and posed no credible threat to zimmerman
zimmerman has repeatedly shown that hes violent, threatening both his exwife and girlfriend by pointing guns in their faces

Trayvon while on top of Zimmerman struck Zimmerman in the nose hard enough to open a wound on the exterior of the nose, as well as smashed Zimmerman's head into the concrete hard enough to open wounds on the back of Zimmerman's head. That is a credible threat. Deal with that reality. I don't know if you've ever been in a real fight, but from the way you discuss things, I get the sense that you haven't. You've never been hit hard enough to really know what that feels like. I've received some blows that I felt posed an existential threat! Like one more and I'm gone.

People don't deserve to die for any reason, even old age or disease. Trayvon was a thug, likely was dealing, used hard narcotics, fought for pleasure, and used, bought, and or sold illegal firearms. That is the type of person he was. That suggests an attitude towards the world as well as his likely disposition when confronted that night. That type of behavior lead him to be thrown out of school as well as out of his own home. I'm confident that Trayvon was on the way to becoming another statistic in America, incarcerated or burned into dust at the county morgue. It is a shame, a real shame.

But, I absolutely do believe Zimmerman was legally justified in shooting Trayvon that night. It is very disappointing that you would advocate the removal a fellow human being's right to self defense. If you want to be a victim of violence, if you want your future wife, your children to be victims of violence, those that you're charged to protect, that is your prerogative. It is fucking twisted, but it is you and your life, I leave you to make your choices that affect you and your family, but when you try to remove rights from other people, it is disrespectful, disgraceful. I'll vehemently speak against you, and work to thwart that agenda.

Zimmerman did nothing wrong, legally. Again, deal with that fact.

[m8son666]

Big up nwj

Now finish ur tuna ffs

[nowaysj]

[Electric_Head]

[nobody]

I didn't think people on here actually fell for that 'Trayvon was just an innocent baby' rubbish on the news

[wub]

I didn't think people on here actually fell for that 'Trayvon was just an innocent baby' rubbish on the news

Phigure's comments suggested that he did to an extent (to me, at least)