Ferguson riots

[DrGatineau]

Jags, 100% legally justified shooting.

I do think there definitely could (and should) have been alternate outcomes here.

So we agree. sure it's legally justified but is it morally? you seem to agree that this should and could have ended differently.

But anybody in the world has the right to put twelve shots into the chest of a crazy dude attacking them with a knife.

This is where I disagree. He was barely even walking towards the cops in that video and he wasn't anywhere NEAR "attacking" them. He wasn't even posturing with the knife.

I know you are an expert marksman and could have used a special bullet to shoot off the tip of the attacker's big toe, causing him to trip, and thus be safely arrested, but these officers are just not as good as you, all of their years of training, practice and experience have left them inadequate next to you.

That is why I'm going to suggest you immediately move to Chicago and become a police officer. They could really use someone like you who has those mad cuddling skills, and beyond robotic level marksman abilities.

[nobody]

A dozen bullets might seem OTT but as discussed a few pages ago, one or two bullets don't stop people like they do in the movies

[DrGatineau]

how do you think the police should have acted? with a crazy person, holding a knife (deadly weapon), approaching them, shouting at them loudly

SHOOT A RUBBER BULLET AT HIS FUCKING THIGH.

[Phigure]

how do you think the police should have acted? with a crazy person, holding a knife (deadly weapon), approaching them, shouting at them loudly

do i really need to tell you?

step back to create more space?
fire a warning shot?
use pepper spray?
use rubber bullets?
use a taser?
retreat into their vehicle? (what is he gonna do, stab the windshield?)

[wub]

Not sure police are allowed to fire 'warning shots' anymore for fear of ricochets hitting someone or something unintentional.


A standard round through the kneecap would've done the job though.

[Phigure]

Not sure police are allowed to fire 'warning shots' anymore for fear of ricochets hitting someone or something unintentional.


A standard round through the kneecap would've done the job though.

shoot in the air, terminal velocity of a bullet is so low that it will hardly injure a person even in the unlikely event it hits someone on the way down

[DrGatineau]

I don't think it takes a marksman to aim for someones goddamn thigh. And if you have time to fire off a dozen shots with your brand new toy, fire all of em at the kneecap, surely one of them will hit it.

[wub]

[nobody]

you've got to be a fucking idiot to approach American police in that manner, everyone knows what happens, no sympathy

[DrGatineau]

That's a ridiculously backwards argument, with all due respect bro.

The police are crazy and overly aggressive -> therefore you should all know not to do anything remotely threatening because they will overreact -> therefore it's your fault if you get shot.

Classic blaming the victim.

It's like saying that all men are horn-dogs so if you wear a short skirt out on the street late at night, well... ya had it coming.


The police are clearly the root of the problem, you've all but admitted it yourself. We should focus on the problem, not the victim.

[nowaysj]

You and Jags could be, like, partners. You guys would get a call, violent/potentially intoxicated man with a knife, just committed armed robbery, threatening people on the street. Phig'd calmly call to Jags for the teddy bear, you two would sit on the curb, cuddling the bear. The crazy with the knife would come over, sit on the curb with you guys. You'd pass over the teddy bear, he'd hold it, feel the softness, you guys would talk about his childhood, discuss the proletariat, the guy would apologize for threatening people with the knife. A hug or two, wipe a away a few tears. The guy would go back to the store, return the stolen items, offer to help out around the store for the rest of the month to make up for scaring the staff. After a couple of weeks, the crazy guy would be a good worker, and they'd offer him a job. He'd work nights until some night a guy comes in with a gun and is like, give me all your forty's or I'll blow your fucking head off. The formerly crazy guy will take out the teddy bear that he keeps under the counter as a reminder, give it to the guy with the gun. They'll both crack open a forty, laugh it off, talk about how hard it is for a black man to catch a break. They decide to go halfsies on a lotto ticket, the next day their numbers are called, rather than splitting their winnings, they decide to build a boy's and girl's club in the neighborhood. After school the kids can come play video games, basketball, make beats, rock a mic or two. Over the years, the facility produces several internationally successful Call of Duty teams, a few guys make it into the NBA, some kids discover house and techno, and we have the fourth rebirth of the form. The facility raises property values in the area. All of the black low income families now own million+ dollar properties which they use to leverage tuition to the best private schools and ultimately the most prestigious Ph.D. programs for their children. One bright student theorizes for his doctorate a way to harness zero point energy. This leads to an end to climate change, the unequal distribution of resources, and the pharmaceutical industry. Ultimately, time and space are open to us, and we move out into the galaxy and finally the broader universe. With us, we carry dubstep, which is a big hit amongst the cosmos, and humans are lauded as worthy companions in the continuum of life.

All of this because of a coupla beat cops with a heart (and a teddy bear) did the right thing.

That is deranged, and is how you, phig and jags sound when you talk about how the police should handle people charging (and briskly walking) at them with a knife.

[nowaysj]

retreat into their vehicle?

Haha, yes!

Definitely retreat back into their vehicle, and then retreat back to the police station for a game of darts. I am with you, brother.

[nobody]

That's a ridiculously backwards argument, with all due respect bro.

The police are crazy and overly aggressive -> therefore you should all know not to do anything remotely threatening because they will overreact -> therefore it's your fault if you get shot.

Classic blaming the victim.

It's like saying that all men are horn-dogs so if you wear a short skirt out on the street late at night, well... ya had it coming.


The police are clearly the root of the problem, you've all but admitted it yourself. We should focus on the problem, not the victim.

Victim? Crazed knife wielding tnuc more like, I think the outcome would have been the same if that guy had done the same thing to an armed civilian, if you act like that, waving a knife around, shouting crazy shit and then approach someone then you must expect them to interpret that as hostility

[nobody]

ask me if I would get a knife and threaten armed police with it

[jrkhnds]

I've fired about 8000 rounds through a SIG550 and 400 rounds through a SIG P220. putting 12 rounds in a kid is a clear indication of poorly trained police personnel.
that being said, I'm pretty sure I would've pulled the trigger aswell. once. maybe twice, depending on results. and forget about aiming at a moving target's leg with a pistol. you'll never hit it.

[nobody]

and forget about aiming at a moving target's leg with a pistol. you'll never hit it.

nah bro, jags could definitely do that, he's practically a sniper

[Electric_Head]

I don't think it takes a marksman to aim for someones goddamn thigh. And if you have time to fire off a dozen shots with your brand new toy, fire all of em at the kneecap, surely one of them will hit it.

I had a debate with someone over this the other day.
They basically said that I had no idea what I was talking about, a person with a gun only points it at someone with the intention of killing them.

I know this is not the case but the fact that as a gun owner he felt that was a valid statement made me a bit worried really.

[jrkhnds]

^ report him to the authorities imho.

[nowaysj]

Jags, 100% legally justified shooting.

I do think there definitely could (and should) have been alternate outcomes here.

So we agree. sure it's legally justified but is it morally? you seem to agree that this should and could have ended differently.

I think the shooting is morally justified as well. I think the officers could have backed away and attempted to create space and attempted to contain the guy with verbal commands, for a couple of seconds at least, the dude was closing distance fast though.

A few things, one, I've posted up in here about the guy who wanted to be a police officer, but he tested with too high of an iq. Police forces routinely will turn away applicants with iq's that are too high. It is a real thing, with real implications, and ultimately is real evil. Two, the police trained to do exactly as they did in this case. Accusing the officer of racism or whatever is just ignorant, that is the training they receive, if you have viable alternatives for defensive tactics those changes need to be top down, and you need to push them as a responsible citizen. Three, many police officers are total pussies. They only like to fight when they're vastly more powerful than their assailants. That is why you will often see them arresting old women when several arrestees are available. The stories I could tell you about pussy ass cops...

But anybody in the world has the right to put twelve shots into the chest of a crazy dude attacking them with a knife.

This is where I disagree. He was barely even walking towards the cops in that video and he wasn't anywhere NEAR "attacking" them. He wasn't even posturing with the knife.

I watched the video once, the videographer is a fucking idiot and holds his phone the wrong way, and I watched it without sound. I read comments on what was said. So, I'm not calling myself totally aware of what is going on here, but within 21 feet officers are trained to shoot assailants with knives.

Just stop pretending like you know anything about firearms, ballistics, or defensive shooting. Hand guns are inaccurate and difficult to shoot under the best of circumstances. They become more so in difficult circumstances, like in this case where the target is a a guy charging you with a knife screaming, "Shoot me!" It would be trick shot level shooting to put one in his knee and probably would be about 1/100 at best for an expert level shooter. I know you're a hero but I'm confident you wouldn't bet your life on 1/100 odds.

And that is not even talking about ballistics. Assailants routinely continue attacking through multiple gun shots. That is just reality. I'm sorry it is like that, but it just is. Do your research, that is just the way it is. Yet another problem with video games and popular entertainment, we have a nation of firearms experts that have never fired a shot. I know you could have totally quick-scoped the knife out of that guy's hand, but the officers, in reality, like the actual world that we inhabit, probably can't do that, and shouldn't be required to.

I really do mean it, if you think you could do better, and you value your fellow humans lives, and I hope you do, I think you should become a police officer. At the very least, go to a gun range, rent a handgun, put the target at 25 feet, give yourself 1.5 seconds, and tell me how many you put in the bull's eye. Now rig a target that weaves back and forth. At 25 feet I've got money you couldn't even hit paper.

I know it is difficult to see someone being shot in the street. I know it is a tragedy. But there are realities out there that many of you don't want to deal with. You look at these situations with a desire that all life be protected and preserved, which is noble, but that is not what is happening out there. People are losing it. People are dangerous. Maybe you want to set up some free counseling clinics in the hood, direct people to mental health and drug treatment centers? Maybe you want to provide those services? Maybe you want to provide education to these kids that grow into these mentally fucked up deadly adults? Maybe you want to start a company that hires these young men who're high on drugs and alcohol? I don't know. When it comes down to a dude charging at a cop, screaming with a knife in his hand, it is too late. That dude is going to get blown the fuck away.

[bennyfroobs]

Jags, 100% legally justified shooting.

I do think there definitely could (and should) have been alternate outcomes here.

But anybody in the world has the right to put twelve shots into the chest of a crazy dude attacking them with a knife.

lol, he literally asked for it, surely everyone knows not to act aggressively towards US police..

You can't really compare this shooting to the shooting of Michael Brown

you are both deranged

yeah i agree

you guys seem to think that the direction america is heading, insane police brutality and militarisation of the police force etc, is a good thing?



also did any of you guys know US police reject applicants who have an IQ too high?
i wonder why that is *chin stroke gif*
lole



as dubu said, why are yall blaming the victims in these situations?

A dozen bullets might seem OTT but as discussed a few pages ago, one or two bullets don't stop people like they do in the movies

yeah i dont think that small vague discussion counted for any categorical evidence of that really