Ferguson riots

[OGLemon]

[test_recordings]

What I want to see is some non-black people of power saying this is all a bad thing or just what they think so we can see where they stand. The absence is conspicuous, the media are just focusing on black people's thoughts on this. Particularly Ron Paul, he seems to be the best alternative political voice at this time.

[karmacazee]

All I see is Scapegoats all over the place. Everyone loves a good scapegoat. Black people were and still are a scape goat for white people to misplace their anger towards. Murderous cops are also a great scapegoat for the oppressed, the 'minorities' and the poor to direct their misplaced anger towards. Muslims are the current scapegoat for everyone who isn't a Muslim.

We're all actually angry at our completely unequal and totally fucked social and political systems that are at the whim of a global financial system that is coming apart at the seams, one that is on the most part too complex for us all to understand or even manage, or offer any solutions towards. This makes us frustrated and angry under the surface, thus we find a simpler concept to direct our frustrations at. And the favoured method of keeping us angry at the wrong thing by our failing and deceitful leaders is racial scapegoats and class scapegoats.

Why do you think the police are generally the main target at most riots? Because they are a simplistic representation of that which we are all generally angry towards - our political and financial systems and institutions. The police are seen as the protectors of the state and of capital, not of us as people.

This inevitably leads people to connect the dots and start looting. Why do you think people target stuff like high street shops when rioting? If not consciously, then subconsciously they are attacking the most blatant symbols of the system, the places where they spend their money or even work for. A high street shop is an ELI5 embodiment of capitalism, capitalism being the current main way we organise our society.

Racism is, and has always been, a tool used by those who wish to preserve and consolidate their power over others. It is a deep rooted problem, one that lies at the heart of our milleniums long struggle against power structures. Divide and conquer.

[nousd]

in the individual sense, everbody can be racist imo
but that's not the point here

black kids are being shot dead by American police in circumstances where white kids probably wouldn't be
because, it seems, police have an expectation that they are more likely to be hurt and are afraid
or more uncertain as to the suspect's reaction and are afraid.
So why are police more afraid of black kids?
Racism? They don't like or can't read black faces?
Experience? Black kids are more likely to be aggressive under the influence of crack/ice/bath salts? More ready to resort to violence?

Every circumstance is different sure
but there's a pattern here.
Is the policeman who shot Brown now any less fearful of black kids, having shot one dead?
I suspect not
Is any kid like Brown now more likely to approach a cop with his hands raised?
I suspect so
Is demonstrating peacefully gunna achieve anything?
I suspect not except to share the grief & empathy with victims
Is rioting gunna achieve anything?
I suspect so...to make police more wary of being shot by snipers & participants more likely to be shot by police.
Is there a solution to this conflict, pain & injustice?
No, not soon if ever.
Will people keep trying to solve it?
Yes. We've got to.

[nowaysj]

I was very pleased to see many people from that community protecting the community from looters/rioters. Fucking don't destroy Cathy's Kitchen, it is a good place. And that Italian place too, they're good. Jokes. But I see a lot of people waking up to Karma's point. This operation serves many purposes, conditioning of many groups, of the police, the national guard, the military, of white people, black people, Europe. Unified Command is a term that is now in our lexicon, just as Shelter In Place was added from Boston.

Just like the people's legitimate concerns were funneled and utilized in Syria and Ukraine, they're being used here. Institutional racism, interpersonal racism are very real issues, but I feel we're getting back to where we were before Viacom's ascendency. Like early 80's. A detour into depravity for 30+ years. But it is so obvious now. Viacom creates demand for Corrections Corporation of America, both held by the Vanguard Group, and tax payers pay the bill, further weakening the social fabric.

So it thankfully seems as many people that they are taking into this plan, there are waking up to the whole thing. People are waking up to their community responsibility. People are rejecting violence. People that are subjected to violence, from the state, and from their own people are rejecting violence. The fucking pig scum are losing. People are waking up. As misguided and mislead as people are with this farcical hands up don't shoot, they're waking up to what is happening in the system.

And as that happens, the system is going to have to step up their measures. They're going to have to be more overt, thus revealing themselves further. Just like the escalation from Trayvon to Brown. They're going to have to take greater control of the organs of communication. Watch the TPP. More consolidation of global power. It is really coming. It is not academic. As you all order your lives and pursue your own agendas, I can not stress how important it is now to lift your heads from your own plot lines your own interests, and look at the bigger picture, because the bigger picture is coming at you and is going to impact your life and your plans.

Thank you for lending me your tinfoil hat Phigure, you can have it back now.

[magma]

black kids are being shot dead by American police in circumstances where white kids probably wouldn't be

</thread>

Everything on top of this is noise tbh. Black kids are more likely to receive deadly force than white kids; racism still alive y'all, they just be concealin' it.

[scspkr99]

Reverse racism does not and can not exist you moron

Can some black people discriminate against white people? Sure (but it's negligible anyways). Can they be racist? No

Because racism is not just "i hate _____ people". Racism is not overtly putting on a KKK hood and burning a cross. Racism is a structural, insitutional problem. Racism is when you have these prejudices in attitudes, values, laws, etc ingrained into a culture and its institutions. Black people can't be racist because there exist no systemic, structural factors that support or enable them in oppressing white people (unlike the other way around)

I think you have this the wrong way round. It is entirely possible for anyone to be racist, it is not always possible for that person to discriminate because discrimination requires the authority to treat unequally. Institutional racism is generally racism that manifests through unequal discriminatory treatment but unequal treatment is a requisite of discrimination not racism.

[nowaysj]

<thread>Black people in America are 700% - 1000% more likely to commit violent crime than white people. The behavior of these two populations is not equal.

[magma]

<thread>Black people in America are 700% - 1000% more likely to commit violent crime than white people. The behavior of these two populations is not equal.

People tend to act the way society expects them to, the way society shows them how they should be living every day. For the last however many decades, America has told its Black kids in no uncertain terms that they are expected to be violent street criminals. Racism breeds racial divide breeds tangible racial difference. You're talking about the effects, not the causes.

Shooting black kids in circumstances you wouldn't shoot white kids only serves to make more black kids feel disenfranchised and "live up" to the expectations of their society.

You can't paper over the chasms in your society with bullets.

[nousd]

heavy but probably possible

[magma]

You can't paper over the chasms in your society with bullets.

In kay's absence, I'll admonish myself for the mixed metaphor.

[nowaysj]

Shooting black kids in circumstances you wouldn't shoot white kids only serves to make more black kids feel disenfranchised and "live up" to the expectations of their society.

You can't paper over the chasms in your society with bullets.

I can assure you that a white suspect matching the description of a felony suspect who then struck an investigating officer in the head and attempted to take the officer's gun and then subsequently charged at the officer would have equally been shot.

As has been demonstrated earlier in this thread, the actual discrimination is that police are free to kill white suspects at will, it is only the slain black suspects that garner INTERNATIONAL attention.

Expecting police officers to solve this country's systemic economic and racial issues is fairly... well par for the course in certain circles of thinking, but is beyond the scope of what they can do and what we can reasonably expect. I think the people who were MOST capable of preventing this (ongoing) tragedy were the parents of Michael Brown. They could have raised their child not to be a criminal, though that is perhaps too much to expect when his parents were teenagers when they had Michael, his father left the family, his mother may be charged for felony assault and his step father has been convicted twice for narcotics trafficking (and may be prosecuted for his statements to protestors to, "Burn this bitch down!").

[nowaysj]

You can't paper over the chasms in your society with bullets.

In kay's absence, I'll admonish myself for the mixed metaphor.

Kay generally misses the implications of certain word choices, but I was going to call you on it here.

[magma]

As has been demonstrated earlier in this thread, the actual discrimination is that police are free to kill white suspects at will, it is only the slain black suspects that garner INTERNATIONAL attention.

I must have missed where this was demonstrated because it sounds like utter bullshit; could you do the honours?

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/fac ... lice/19423

Given that Black people make up 13% of the American population:

- The website ProPublica finds that black men aged 15 to 19 are 21 times more likely to be killed by the police.
- 426 “felons killed by police” in 2012, and 31 per cent of the victims were black
- When it was white officers who did the killing, the casualties were black nearly half (46 per cent) the time (i.e. White cops shoot black kids more than black cops)
- From 2010 to 2012, black people were two to three times more likely to be killed by legal intervention.

[nowaysj]

Read back in the thread. It is almost 4 here, it is now sleepytime theology.

[magma]

Read back in the thread. It is almost 4 here, it is now sleepytime theology.

Surprise, surprise. Nowaysj can't be bothered to back up his claims.

[scspkr99]

It's a fucking outrageous claim to be fair. It's also clearly wrong unless he accepts that the judicial system is unable to sanction cops killing white people.

[hubb]

Why do you think the police are generally the main target at most riots? Because they are a simplistic representation of that which we are all generally angry towards - our political and financial systems and institutions. The police are seen as the protectors of the state and of capital, not of us as people.

No. It's not an intellectual stance where the oppressed focus their hatred into a bullet of logic. It's about living in a part of society where the police isn't protection.

[hubb]

I think you missed the point dear noways was making there


that cops have too 'loose' definitions of when they can actually shoot and that with the system in place, it's a given that they will... so when you have a 'criminal' (their definition) it's already a step closer to 'tragedy'.


@ Phigure

[magma]

Police "justified" in shooting a (yes, Black) cosplayer four times in the back because of his toy sword.

http://gawker.com/surveillance-video-sh ... 1663417341

In b4 nowaysj tells us this happens to white people in fancy dress all the time.