Feedback for Ableton and Logic

brklss · Post by **brklss** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:37 pm

I recently bought a Mac and was wondering if someone could point me out the pros and cons for Ableton Live 6 and Logic Express 8 as I am not sure of which on I should buy. Also, how is Reason 4 in comparison with monsters like Logic and Ableton?

Happy for any input so keep it coming!

somejerk · Post by **somejerk** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:46 pm

i use live on a PC. i would use logic or at least try it but i am limited to PC so live it is.

get demos of both and try them out. really, software is just a tool and some tools suite others more so. i love using live but i think that logic may be a little more higher end.

brklss · Post by **brklss** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:50 pm

Apple does not provide Demos/Trial Versions for Logic (Express) anymore since 7 came out in 2004. Might go to the local Apple Store and whack some bass out that thing there

two oh one · Post by **two oh one** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:57 pm

Logic, obviously.

decklyn · Post by **decklyn** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:58 pm

If I had a mac I would be using logic no questions asked.

brklss · Post by **brklss** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:07 pm

two oh one wrote:Logic, obviously.

Mate, if you would like to help, do it properly and tell me pros and cons and share your experience. If you can't be bothered, that's fine

brklss · Post by **brklss** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:08 pm

decklyn wrote:If I had a mac I would be using logic no questions asked.

And why is that? Just curious.

two oh one · Post by **two oh one** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:35 pm

Logic is an long established DAW and is used in a lot of (pro) studios. It comes with a shit load of quality plugins and softsynths. It's arguably the best DAW on the planet. Since version 8, it can now happily compete with Pro Tools on the audio editing front. Since Apple bought it, it's now Apple software running on an Apple OS, running on Apple hardware. Stable and well integrated.

Live began life as a live sample looping sequencer and has had some DAW-like features bolted to it over the years. This is the part that bothers me with it.

I stopped using Live past version 2 because it was going from a beautifully lean piece of kit that did one job very, very well, to being weird frankensoftware that felt a bit bloatier with each release. I'm not saying Live isn't a capable piece of kit, but Logic is more capable.

Logic all the way.

auan · Post by **auan** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:47 pm

two oh one wrote:Live began life as a live sample looping sequencer and has had some DAW-like features bolted to it over the years. This is the part that bothers me with it.

True enough but not accurate. It started as a live DAW. You could always do everything in it, it was just geared towards doing things fast, rather than doing things anally (as every studio DAW should). It's just had more DAW features added to it.

You could argue the same for Logic by the way. It's just had more years of bolting stuff on.

But despite my enormous stiffie for Live, I'm with decklyn. If I had a Mac, it would be Logic all the way.

brklss · Post by **brklss** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:43 pm

Okay that makes sense. Now, what differences are there between Logic Pro 8 and Logic Express 8?

auan · Post by **auan** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:04 pm

Logic Pro costs more and does more stuff that you don't really need it to, but also makes your penis bigger.

ruckus.dk · Post by **ruckus.dk** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:39 pm

logic is siiieck...

ive been using reason for about 2 years now, just switched to a Macbookpro and got logic pro 8, best change i have ever made... it is so freqn locical...funnyly enough!

i have only really had a little play on live, but it seems pretty nais, straight forward and you dont really need any extra vst's, kinda like reason and is fairly self contained...

whineo · Post by **whineo** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:00 am

ruckus.dk wrote: i have only really had a little play on live, but it seems pretty nais, straight forward and you dont really need any extra vst's, kinda like reason and is fairly self contained...

Ableton is nothing like reason. If anything , Logic is the one that you don't need any extra vsts for.

The new EQs and Compressors in Logic 8 sound fantastic

auan · Post by **auan** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:18 am

Ableton doesn't come with much out of the box in the way of instruments. You get Simpler (a simple sampler, get it?) and Impulse (sampling drum machine, owes a lot to the SP-12) and that's it. You get trial versions of Operator (awesome synth) and Sampler (take a guess, better than Simpler) as well, but they're sold seperately from Ableton's site.

Doesn't sound like much, but remember what Ableton's meant for, working with audio, especially loops. So you get a wealth of effects bundled, all pretty simple but of varying quality. The Reverb is dire, the compressors aren't up to much, but the EQs are sublime, the delays are as good as digital delays get, and Beat Repeat is a classic.

I had Albino and Battery when I got Ableton, and I've since got Massive and plenty outboard stuff, so I never had a problem with not being able to make sound. Plenty of free vsts around if you need something to play, and you'll be buying synths whether you go for Live or Logic.

But it ain't nothing like Reason.

deadkhid · Post by **deadkhid** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:32 am

In the end of the day, it doesen't really matter what you're using, the main reasons to end up with a certain software are pretty much found in the way you want to operate.

Ableton Live works for me as it is a bit more "hands-on" software than Logic, and it lets me to get started and keep moving quickly while I work. I'm more of an "throw it all in there and organize later" - type of musician.

Logic is a paradise for a person who likes to create his work one piece at a time, and not to move to the next element until the first one is properly done and fixed. Or that's what I've noticed... could be wrong. As Auan wrote: Live is geared towards doing things fast, rather than doing things anally.

Even tho Live and Logic are made for a different type working method, I wonder why people keep thinking they're made for the different result. I mean in these days, there probably even isn't a music software out that wouldn't be able to do the same things as the next one. It's all about plug-ins and of course the MAKER HIMSELF. In a way I do understand why Logic is considered as a pro, stuio-software (as it obviously is one), but I always like to remind that Live isn't just a loop- or a drum machine. Those "Locig obviously!" - comments have a certain vibe on them. To drive a Ferrari just for the fact that it is one.

Nah but seriously, no right awnser here. You need to get them both in your hands and try how they feel. I say both, Logic and Live are cabable in doing the exact same things, in almost the same ways, and both of them are top-desinged softwares with no limits. When choosing a musical instrument or a software, people tend to forget to leave a little space for their own creativity. In many cases it leads to a point where the person thinks that the instrument sucks because it doesen't grow any wings by a single button press.

chunkie · Post by **chunkie** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:25 am

also, although essentially the same track could be made on both pieces of software...

there is also a point on your music creation process - Live and audio are the bollocks, whereas if you plan on midi being your focal point with samples playing a supplementary role then Logic's midi set-up is outstanding

i'd say get the demos and try making a track (possibly the same track?!) on each platform

sees which one facilitates your own workflow best

bottom line is that both are hugely capable of producing top-quality material and it all boils down to personal preference

also just think about the future and gear towards that bcos getting new software and re-learning etc is not fun!, so will you be software-dj'ing or playing out at all..?

auan · Post by **auan** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:39 am

Chunkie wrote:i'd say get the demos and try making a track (possibly the same track?!) on each platform

brklss wrote:Apple does not provide Demos/Trial Versions for Logic (Express) anymore since 7 came out in 2004. Might go to the local Apple Store and whack some bass out that thing there

I'd say balls to Logic on that one. They obviously expect people to buy it just because it's Logic. So fuck them. It's the McDonaldsization of pro audio.

chunkie · Post by **chunkie** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:12 am

Auan wrote:
Chunkie wrote:i'd say get the demos and try making a track (possibly the same track?!) on each platform

brklss wrote:Apple does not provide Demos/Trial Versions for Logic (Express) anymore since 7 came out in 2004. Might go to the local Apple Store and whack some bass out that thing there
I'd say balls to Logic on that one. They obviously expect people to buy it just because it's Logic. So fuck them. It's the McDonaldsization of pro audio.

wankers

two oh one · Post by **two oh one** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:59 pm

Auan wrote:
Chunkie wrote:i'd say get the demos and try making a track (possibly the same track?!) on each platform

brklss wrote:Apple does not provide Demos/Trial Versions for Logic (Express) anymore since 7 came out in 2004. Might go to the local Apple Store and whack some bass out that thing there
I'd say balls to Logic on that one. They obviously expect people to buy it just because it's Logic. So fuck them. It's the McDonaldsization of pro audio.

I think they'd do a better job of converting a lot more people were they to offer a Logic demo. Just shooting themselves in the foot.

McDonalds? Nah, that would imply cheap 'n' poisonous belly filler, which isn't really what I'd equate to Apple stuff to.

Just go with your gut.

auan · Post by **auan** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:52 am

two oh one wrote:
Auan wrote:
Chunkie wrote:i'd say get the demos and try making a track (possibly the same track?!) on each platform

brklss wrote:Apple does not provide Demos/Trial Versions for Logic (Express) anymore since 7 came out in 2004. Might go to the local Apple Store and whack some bass out that thing there
I'd say balls to Logic on that one. They obviously expect people to buy it just because it's Logic. So fuck them. It's the McDonaldsization of pro audio.
I think they'd do a better job of converting a lot more people were they to offer a Logic demo. Just shooting themselves in the foot.

McDonalds? Nah, that would imply cheap 'n' poisonous belly filler, which isn't really what I'd equate to Apple stuff to.

Just go with your gut.

McDonaldization

One of the pillars of McDonaldization is predictability. You can be fairly certain that a Big Mac in New York will taste the same as a Big Mac in Tokyo will taste the same as a Big Mac in Grimsby.

Apple expect you to be fairly certain that Logic 8 will be the same as Logic 7 only better, and you'll buy it based on that assumption. Hence the McDonaldization of pro audio.

Christ, I must have been on something when I posted that.

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