attacked by poltergeist's UPDATED WITH NEW PICS

[efa]

I have never seen any real proof of ghosts or aliens

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=0

get to know

Ha ha, think I tried to watch this once, bunch of ODD lookin fuckers!

I've had plenty of strange shit happen and I think the best thing you can do is just chalk it down to "one of them" or you'll end up like Shonky's mate - hope he's all good brav!

We're complex beings, weird by default!

[shonky]

8bit, all the talk of the paranormal is all interesting/scary but I really don't think this is any more than mind trickery. I've suffered from Hypnagogic Hallucinations (I don't take drugs and I'm not crazy) where I have had both visual and auditory hallucinations and have heard male and female voices call out to me, say names of family members etc. when I am either falling a sleep or a sleep and wake hearing things. The bastard is the Hypnagogic shocks which feel like you've just been struck with a cattle prod and you jerk, hear and feel the shock.

You may have a touch of it yourself, it's quite possible to be actually wake not like you are reading this) but your brain waves are in the delta state (sleep)... this can also cause lucid dreams.

You'd be really amazed what happens when you sleep, I sometimes wish I could record dreams and stuff, how mental would that be!

You should try and de-stress and relax (no weed or anything else), get some early nights, don't get yourself knackard out and see how it goes for the week.

Some sense talked there. I sleepwalk and talk in my sleep (have had conversations with people whilst sleepwalking that were complete nonsense and that I have no recollection of the next day). I've had dreams where I thought I waa awake, walked forwards, hit a paving slab, fell over and then sat bolt upright in bed, completely confused as to how I'd been wandering about for hours and then found myself in my flat. Mind does play stupid tricks on you, trust.

[the wiggle baron]

What gets me is that despite countless thousands upon thousands of so called encounters with the paranormal I have never once been presented with anything even nearly as logical as "its all in your mind", let alone 'indisputable' proof...

[shonky]

What gets me is that despite countless thousands upon thousands of so called encounters with the paranormal I have never once been presented with anything even nearly as logical as "its all in your mind", let alone 'indisputable' proof...

Totally agree, but did find an interesting article on the nature of belief and how much that can affect your world.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/connected/ma ... xml&page=1

Seems that in some ways the unquestioning belief in something is advantageous to your life expectancy, whether it's quantifiably true or not. Read an interesting thing a while back where they were looking for an evolutionary reason why religion may have taken hold. They believed that as soon as man became sentient enough to realise his own mortality and realised he was in a world with great daily peril, that it became imperative to have something above and beyond this to give some reason to survive. In the article they say that the single biggest commonality between sufferer's of terminal illness that somehow went into spontaneous remission was a sense of hope, and most of those were through strong religious convictions.

I'm an atheist and general skeptic about these things, but I do feel it indicates that the mind influencesls far more than we really give it credit for in some ways.

[parson]

i understand skepticism and the need for verifiable evidence very much.

i spent much of my life singing the praises of carl sagan.

but really there comes a point where evidence outweighs skepticism and its time to change beliefs.
there may not be good evidence for ghosts but there is very good evidence for aliens, and frankly people who don't accept that are completely crazy to me.

[efa]

I've never seen certain proof, lots of interesting accounts - I am interested in the issue if a little agnostic, what you got to show me son?

[parson]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=0
the disclosure project is a collective of 400+ high ranking military and government officials, many with top secret access, who have decided to come forward with everything they know about the ufo coverup.


and

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=3
dan akroyd introduces david sereda who shows NASA videos of UFOS and draws conclusions based on scientific observations. he corresponds with NASA at length about his observations.

you can't skim them though. not all evidence comes in 30 second soundbytes.

[auan]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=0

and

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=3

you can't skim them though. not all evidence comes in 30 second soundbytes.

I sat through the first hour of the first one. Awesome way to spend a Friday night. Got a little bored and googled around while the audio was still playing. What really put me off was this:
http://www.disclosureproject.org/shop.htm

If the information you've got is so fundamentally important to the human race (paraphrasing), why cheapen it by whoring out not one but two "commentary" books and a fucking Meditation CD, whatever that is. Personally I can't even listen to music while meditating. The thought of trying to focus while these old codgers ramble on about what they think they saw seems ridiculous. Anyway, it's all a cash-in and as far as I care, it can fuck off.

The second one was not so bad if you like looking at bad video quality captures of lens flare, meteors in the upper atmosphere and other atmospheric phenomena. I've seen some really convincing UFO videos. None of them were in this clip.

For the record I'm pretty agnostic about UFOs too. Ask me, are we alone in the universe? Probably not. Are we being visiting regularly by aliens? Probably not.

Here's a thought I had while listening to the first video with this thread in mind. Almost all UFO reports I can think of, the believable ones at least, come from people who are either scientifically, science-fictionally or militaristically minded. On the other hand, almost everyone who claims to have seen a ghost or had a similar experience seems to be artistically or spiritually minded. I'm including everyone who posted a ghost story in this thread in the artistic category, since we're posting in a music forum. Anyway my point is, maybe they're the exact same phenomenon, but our minds interpret them in different ways, depending on our character. Pathways through the mind and all that. I mean, think of everything they have in common: the two objects (ghosts and UFOs) are both relatively silent; they both can float or hover with no visible means of support; they both move silently, described as moving in an inhuman way, with no visible means of propulsion; and they both are generally most often seen at night.

Your thoughts?

[edited for typos]

[parson]

yes i have thoughts.

the people speaking in the first one are some of the most credible people in the world. check the references. figure out who they are. they have the documents and evidence to back up what they're reporting.

so fucking what if they have bad ideas about how to come up with money to fund their endeavors. i'm not buying some fucking meditation cd. that doesn't mean these people aren't telling the truth.

the facts are overwhelming.

your claim that the second video contained footage of meteors and "atmospheric phenomena" is complete ignorance. meteors do not change direction. meteors do not exit the atmosphere. meteors are visible to the naked eye and not only visible in the near uv spectrum. meteors do not teleport in from out of nowhere and then descend in formation and then light up. you did not watch. you skimmed. the second part of the video goes into optics of cameras and lens flares and debris and every possible dismissal, and debunks them all irrefutably.

just like when the native americans saw the spaniards coming in on ships, they didn't see the ships. their minds could not conceive of it, so they didn't see them. they had to be told by their leader that there was actually something there approaching before they were physically capable of perceiving it. belief is a motherfucker, and your belief that its all nonsense is blinding you from the obvious truth that is so apparent you really have to be pretty special to continue to reject it.

its so completely utterly glaringly obvious brainwashed. and i know who brainwashed you because i used to repeat the exact same nonsense when presented with alleged evidence to paranormal phenomena. everything about your response is textbook. my exgf took a pseudoscience debunking class at UT on my recommendation. i used to not date girls unless they read carl sagan's "the demon haunted world". trust me. i know the perspective. and its wrong. very very very wrong.

i had to become an expert on skepticism in order to reconcile my experiences with psychedelics and dissociatives and what i perceived of as communications with aliens. i convinced myself it was drug induced psychosis, and began subscribing to very strict skeptical philosophy in approaching the world. it totally kept my head screwed on straight for a lot of years when i thought i was losing it. there's an easy dismissal for everything. a lot of them are very good dismissals. hallucinations, and sleep paralysis are the best.
HOWEVER, the evidence is there. you can't just ignore it because you choose to believe in a more accepted perception of reality.
reality is not what's projected by the artificial zeitgeist.

[auan]

You don't know the perspective because you're assuming I'm a skeptic, which I'm really not. I said agnostic and I meant it, I said I've seen some really convincing videos, and I have. I don't even know what psuedoscience is. All I know about Carl Sagan is the Beastie Boys namechecked him on an Intergalactic b-side.

Personally I don't see how a stammering air force captain with stage fright is any more credible than Coast to Coast callers or any other guy. If aliens really were visiting from space, they wouldn't know an army chief from you or me. One UFO story is as incredible - in every sense - as the next.

You never linked to a second part when I clicked. All I got was what looked like a highlights reel from the Dan Ackroyd tape. Maybe you edited it while I was typing, I dunno. Dan Ackroyd, by the way, is hardly a credible character - you're expecting me to trust an actor? You're taking the word of a comedian over scientists? But ok, given what I've said above, I'll give the youtube link a chance.

...in the morning.

[parson]

oh yeah i edited it. the version i linked to is actually 11 parts. the version i have is 2 parts, each an hour and a half. its in a bunch of chunks on youtube but its 3 hours.

and as for the disclosure project, there are 400 of these credible witnesses with stories that all match and paint a unified picture. even if 399 of them are delusional or lying, all it takes is for a single one of them to be telling the truth

and i said i know who brainwashed you. i didn't say you would. the entire attitude goes back to the carl sagan school of "weird stuff does NOT happen (but it would be nice)".

as for dan akroyd, who cares. i don't even care about david sereda. neither of those dude's individual credibility changes the facts being presented which are:

nasa broadcasts from special cameras that can see into the near uv spectrum that only work outside the atmosphere. nasa broadcasts this stuff live on cable tv.

footage of the exact same shape craft (that is invisible to the visible light spectrum and doesn't turn up at all below it in infrared either) flying around doing crazy shit that comets and meteor and debris don't do.

footage of a nasa experiment trying to generate energy from the earth's ionosphere with a giant tether. it goes bad, and suddenly the area is swarmed with the same ufos. all invisible except on these cameras. you can hear the nasa people talking about seeing them too.

nasa recognizes their existence and calls them house sized comets which are penetrating the earth at a rate of thousands per day. what they don't account for is the changing of direction, invisibility, and exiting of the atmosphere.

david sereda shows all the footage and stuff and says all kinds of interesting stuff about it, but even if you don't believe his conclusions it doesn't change the fact that the evidence is there.

[auan]

So tell me, who brainwashed me?

[parson]

the memes projected into the artificial zeitgeist stemming from the carl sagan "nothing weird happens" school of collective thought

[parson]

and i keep editing and adding to like every post i make as to not stack a dozen on top of each other

[auan]

Oh, ok.

But maybe you're the brainwashed one...

[parson]

maybe i'm rubber and you're glue

[auan]

[future producer]

i understand skepticism and the need for verifiable evidence very much.

i spent much of my life singing the praises of carl sagan.

but really there comes a point where evidence outweighs skepticism and its time to change beliefs.
there may not be good evidence for ghosts but there is very good evidence for aliens, and frankly people who don't accept that are completely crazy to me.

I'd actually much rather there were aliens than ghosts and stuff (although it would be nice to know we "live" on after death). I do think there are aliens out there but little grey humanoid like fellas just don't do it for me.

A Hubble Space Telescope image revealed that there may be over 50 billion galaxies... it would be highly disappointing if out of those estimated 50 billion galaxies we were the only living intelligent lifeforms.

I still believe UFO's are cover up's for top secret aircraft like the alleged Aurora Project, it's the perfect blag.

Unless it's confirmed by the Govt. with proof and/or I see spacecraft's with little fellas in side I still sit on the fence.

Moon bases, humanoid like creatures living underground in secret bases? No.

[slim]

i understand skepticism and the need for verifiable evidence very much.

i spent much of my life singing the praises of carl sagan.

but really there comes a point where evidence outweighs skepticism and its time to change beliefs.
there may not be good evidence for ghosts but there is very good evidence for aliens, and frankly people who don't accept that are completely crazy to me.

I'd actually much rather there were aliens than ghosts and stuff (although it would be nice to know we "live" on after death). I do think there are aliens out there but little grey humanoid like fellas just don't do it for me.

A Hubble Space Telescope image revealed that there may be over 50 billion galaxies... it would be highly disappointing if out of those estimated 50 billion galaxies we were the only living intelligent lifeforms.

I still believe UFO's are cover up's for top secret aircraft like the alleged Aurora Project, it's the perfect blag.

Unless it's confirmed by the Govt. with proof and/or I see spacecraft's with little fellas in side I still sit on the fence.

Moon bases, humanoid like creatures living underground in secret bases? No.

Well i do know a creepy guy who lives in his mum's basement, but that is hardly "secret". I get you with the agnosticism, i've actually been criticised by my scientist friends for not believing in ghosts after having "seen" them, because i am apparently letting my skepticism cloud my judgement, but until i see anything that proves consciousness comes from anything other than the brain i will not believe in life after death / ghosts.

I've had hallucinations, they seemed completely real, so did these "ghosts". Fact that they only appeared when mentioned only reinforces the fact that i was probably embellishing infra-sound generated hallucinations.

Funny how a lot of dubsteppers have had these kind of experience, and how we all tend to love the ultra low frequencies

[the wiggle baron]

Right im making my way through the evidence for ufo from nasa thing. And so far im highly unimpressed. Starting off with grainy film of what could be anything, combined with gothic chanting and quotes from the bible.

So far ive seen cults give more convincing evidence for their causes...

Edit: combine this with so far primary school physics...