Nu-Dubstep

[pete_bubonic]

Man I hate it when misinformed brehs make decsions about what the scene 'needs' to do.

but by definition the name DUBstep means that a ragga stab/vocal is the sample of choice.

Wrong.

By definition (and the point of the name) is that it was dub version of tracks, ie: no vocals. The dub/reggae is taken only because
1/ people don't know their history
2/ too many big names rely on the universal liking of reggae/dancehall and rinse the samples in their productions.


Don't get it twisted, I agree about leftfield people getting marginalised (they have done since the dubstep scene formed). But spreading misinformation on a message board int going to make a difference. Getting to nights like Platform 1, Ruffnek Discotek, Ruffage, paying for releases by labels like Hessle, Punch Drunk, Werk and Boka is what is going to make the difference. Not posting about it on a message board.

Mate you are getting what i'm saying twisted! I was agreeing with you that DUBstep isn't just ragga stabs however my point is that people ASSUME they are a core ingrediant.

I know that using a tripet echoes or tape delay (i.e dub techniques) is what the emphasis is but the name is misleading to people. Look at ANY dubstep sample CD for evidence...

Ragga stabs etc.... are as core an ingrediant as Plasticman sampling his printer in the early days....or someone using a reese or amen....or a techno bleep etc.... NOTHING is a core ingrediant.

My apologies I must have misread
"Dubstep from day one was diversity and the Caspa/Rusko article finishes by stating that the rule is a bassline around 140bpm and the rest is up to the producer but by definition the name DUBstep means that a ragga stab/vocal is the sample of choice."

?!

Like I say I agree about the marginalisation point, but this thread is still pointless. DIscussion isn't what makes the difference. Starting/going to/purchasing labels/releases and merchandise is what does.

[Whistla]

Man I hate it when misinformed brehs make decsions about what the scene 'needs' to do.

but by definition the name DUBstep means that a ragga stab/vocal is the sample of choice.

Wrong.

By definition (and the point of the name) is that it was dub version of tracks, ie: no vocals. The dub/reggae is taken only because
1/ people don't know their history
2/ too many big names rely on the universal liking of reggae/dancehall and rinse the samples in their productions.


Don't get it twisted, I agree about leftfield people getting marginalised (they have done since the dubstep scene formed). But spreading misinformation on a message board int going to make a difference. Getting to nights like Platform 1, Ruffnek Discotek, Ruffage, paying for releases by labels like Hessle, Punch Drunk, Werk and Boka is what is going to make the difference. Not posting about it on a message board.

i think hedfukkah meant that to a newbie punter who doesnt know there history etc they will assume that dubstep is a kind of dub/reggae
also
i think a bit of healthy discussion on this is valid considering its what heaps of people talk about at nights themselves, and this forum does tend to reflect the mood of the "scene" "movement" "whatever you call it"

There are at least 3 threads commenting on the new influx of nu ravers, the change in the scene towards catering for these and the departing of grime. Healthy discussion, yeah, repeating the same thing over again with no real new contribution nor even correct info aint exactly healthy conversation.

i saw this thread as more of a comment of how dubstep is loosing it garage roots and the alienation of a number of peoples because of that, as well as the influx of new peoples

[jolly wailer]

Man I hate it when misinformed brehs make decsions about what the scene 'needs' to do.

but by definition the name DUBstep means that a ragga stab/vocal is the sample of choice.

Wrong.

By definition (and the point of the name) is that it was dub version of tracks, ie: no vocals. The dub/reggae is taken only because
1/ people don't know their history
2/ too many big names rely on the universal liking of reggae/dancehall and rinse the samples in their productions.


Don't get it twisted, I agree about leftfield people getting marginalised (they have done since the dubstep scene formed). But spreading misinformation on a message board int going to make a difference. Getting to nights like Platform 1, Ruffnek Discotek, Ruffage, paying for releases by labels like Hessle, Punch Drunk, Werk and Boka is what is going to make the difference. Not posting about it on a message board.

i think hedfukkah meant that to a newbie punter who doesnt know there history etc they will assume that dubstep is a kind of dub/reggae
also
i think a bit of healthy discussion on this is valid considering its what heaps of people talk about at nights themselves, and this forum does tend to reflect the mood of the "scene" "movement" "whatever you call it"

I mean in a way though whistla if you think of it in a larger sense dubstep is part of the larger continuum of dub/reggae/hardcore/jungle/UK bass music even if ever track isn't explicitly on some "who's di badbwoi?!" type shit.. it's impossible to not see elements of jamaican music production in even the coldest and most forward thinking productions produced for the dance music foray.. you just have to be sensible enough to know how it all fits together without having to be beaten in the head with a red gold and green baseball bat... Its impossible to say that dubstep ISN'T at least in a little way about heavy dub music - even if all productions don't lean that way

[Whistla]

Man I hate it when misinformed brehs make decsions about what the scene 'needs' to do.

but by definition the name DUBstep means that a ragga stab/vocal is the sample of choice.

Wrong.

By definition (and the point of the name) is that it was dub version of tracks, ie: no vocals. The dub/reggae is taken only because
1/ people don't know their history
2/ too many big names rely on the universal liking of reggae/dancehall and rinse the samples in their productions.


Don't get it twisted, I agree about leftfield people getting marginalised (they have done since the dubstep scene formed). But spreading misinformation on a message board int going to make a difference. Getting to nights like Platform 1, Ruffnek Discotek, Ruffage, paying for releases by labels like Hessle, Punch Drunk, Werk and Boka is what is going to make the difference. Not posting about it on a message board.

i think hedfukkah meant that to a newbie punter who doesnt know there history etc they will assume that dubstep is a kind of dub/reggae
also
i think a bit of healthy discussion on this is valid considering its what heaps of people talk about at nights themselves, and this forum does tend to reflect the mood of the "scene" "movement" "whatever you call it"

I mean in a way though whistla if you think of it in a larger sense dubstep is part of the larger continuum of dub/reggae/hardcore/jungle/UK bass music even if ever track isn't explicitly on some "who's di badbwoi?!" type shit.. it's impossible to not see elements of jamaican music production in even the coldest and most forward thinking productions produced for the dance music foray.. you just have to be sensible enough to know how it all fits together without having to be beaten in the head with a red gold and green baseball bat... Its impossible to say that dubstep ISN'T at least in a little way about heavy dub music - even if all productions don't lean that way

oh yeh defo!
dont get me wrong i like a bit of dub and am always locking into Rockaway on SubFM
yeh i think the continum is what its all about! thats why i think we are moving into a new area where people are bridging the divide between Bassline/Niche and Dubstep and it this bridging and resultant new sound is what is interesting me and i think what hedfukkah was getting at, this marginalisation from dubstep for various people is happening in bassline/niche to other people to, and i think that we are witnessing the birth of summin interesting here

[hedfukkah]

Okay i meant that a ragga stab was sample of choice for people discovering the genre and buying a dubstep samplepack.

I'm not hating on Nu-ravers coming into the scene they have just as much right to dance as anyone.

I'm not hating on the direction Tempa are taking things. They may genuinly like the sound they promote or they may be cashing in. Who cares? They are doing their thing.

However i am saying that whilst Tempa dictate what many people see as dubstep (through Rinse, FWD, Dubplate Drama soundtrack, music on Skins, Ammunition artsts, Dubplate.net) the minorities will not get a look in for the most part.

The media will focus on the established artists. Kids will listen to Rinse shows and FWD will continue to book Rinse artists even though many high quality DJs would smash the dancefloor and open people's ears to different styles. No one can deny that at peak time in FWD there is a small cross section of the sound yu are likely to hear.

Tempa have their niche sewn up they invented the term DUBSTEP (not the music) and as far as the majority of people's opinions are concerned (outside of this forum) Tempa is DUBSTEP...which is True really. Other people use the term but it is tempa's term and will always be because they invented it.

I want fringe artists to get as much success and to make money from their beats and to be recognised for the quality beats they do.. I don't want it ghettoised in a small club with 5 people standing around...The problem is it will never be big when there is such a stranglehold on the term DUBSTEP. Which is why a new identity would help cultivate new artists under something much more diverse than 'dubstep' in it's commercial and publicly conceived form.

[hedfukkah]

and i think that we are witnessing the birth of summin interesting here

EXACTLY. New sounds are emerging. Exciting cross pollinations of sounds from all over. It is an exciting time and if you use the continuim idea then yes we are entering into a new stage with lots and lots of new sounds from global sources. Only applying the name dubstep to it all just means that it seems like it's not new...just more 'dubstep'.

Dubstep is great but not an umbrella identity for all new bass music. Even if that was the original intention it is no longer the case.

[pete_bubonic]

Man I hate it when misinformed brehs make decsions about what the scene 'needs' to do.

but by definition the name DUBstep means that a ragga stab/vocal is the sample of choice.

Wrong.

By definition (and the point of the name) is that it was dub version of tracks, ie: no vocals. The dub/reggae is taken only because
1/ people don't know their history
2/ too many big names rely on the universal liking of reggae/dancehall and rinse the samples in their productions.


Don't get it twisted, I agree about leftfield people getting marginalised (they have done since the dubstep scene formed). But spreading misinformation on a message board int going to make a difference. Getting to nights like Platform 1, Ruffnek Discotek, Ruffage, paying for releases by labels like Hessle, Punch Drunk, Werk and Boka is what is going to make the difference. Not posting about it on a message board.

i think hedfukkah meant that to a newbie punter who doesnt know there history etc they will assume that dubstep is a kind of dub/reggae
also
i think a bit of healthy discussion on this is valid considering its what heaps of people talk about at nights themselves, and this forum does tend to reflect the mood of the "scene" "movement" "whatever you call it"

I mean in a way though whistla if you think of it in a larger sense dubstep is part of the larger continuum of dub/reggae/hardcore/jungle/UK bass music even if ever track isn't explicitly on some "who's di badbwoi?!" type shit.. it's impossible to not see elements of jamaican music production in even the coldest and most forward thinking productions produced for the dance music foray.. you just have to be sensible enough to know how it all fits together without having to be beaten in the head with a red gold and green baseball bat... Its impossible to say that dubstep ISN'T at least in a little way about heavy dub music - even if all productions don't lean that way

oh yeh defo!
dont get me wrong i like a bit of dub and am always locking into Rockaway on SubFM
yeh i think the continum is what its all about! thats why i think we are moving into a new area where people are bridging the divide between Bassline/Niche and Dubstep and it this bridging and resultant new sound is what is interesting me and i think what hedfukkah was getting at, this marginalisation from dubstep for various people is happening in bassline/niche to other people to, and i think that we are witnessing the birth of summin interesting here

you can say this of pretty much all 'street' (dubstep and street in the same sentence, my own social faux pas!) dance music in the UK harks back to dub/roots. I'm not denying that.


Hedfukkah -

My apologies for entering this thread, regardless of whether it is old ground, people obviously still want to talk about it.

As to Tempa's monopoly, well I agree they dictate what the socially accepted sound of dubsep is. But's that's also the way it has been with every music genre going. When G-Rap was big, Def Jam ran tings. When Angry Tech Step was at it's peak, Renegade Hardware owned DnB. Styles move on, the big boys eventually acknowledge and step aside for the new talent. Tempa are capitalising on the media burst of what they have built and fair play even if egos and pund signs are blocking certain brehs from seeing clearly, but it ain't my place to comment on that.

[pete_bubonic]

BTW, dunno if it's another misinformation or whether you are making a point again, but Tempa didn't invent the term Dubstep. A mag by the name of XLR8R (I think) did. Tempa just ran with it.

Shoulda called it Bassline then imo. And let the now bassline heads have Niche as a genre title. Dubstep is not that imaginative Not that Bassline is, but at least these constant connotations of reggae would FUCK OFF!

[elementalism]

Dubstep died, so I cooked it.

[hedfukkah]

Pete, I think that you have made a key point that all scenes have one label with a monopoly...

DUbstep is infiltrating indie clubs but it is not ALL dubstep it is just one sound. The diversity is getting lost under one tag.

I think that Bass music (hardcore to jungle to dnb to garage to grime to bassline to dubstep to whatever - in no order) is inherent in UK culture and it has gone global but by having such an array of sounds under a dubstep name just completely marginalizes the different sounds with the majority looking at one thing.

The Headline from the Caspa/rusko article states that rinse fm streaming worldwide is the reason the sound is spreading. Not SUB/Reeact/Streamizm etc... whoi also broadcast internationally with an international group of DJs. If Rinse is spreading Dubstep then what are the other stations spreading?

[forensix (mcr)]

BTW, dunno if it's another misinformation or whether you are making a point again, but Tempa didn't invent the term Dubstep. A mag by the name of XLR8R (I think) did. Tempa just ran with it.

Shoulda called it Bassline then imo. And let the now bassline heads have Niche as a genre title. Dubstep is not that imaginative Not that Bassline is, but at least these constant connotations of reggae would FUCK OFF!

Chill - I think you need some more "Jah" samples

[pete_bubonic]

BTW, dunno if it's another misinformation or whether you are making a point again, but Tempa didn't invent the term Dubstep. A mag by the name of XLR8R (I think) did. Tempa just ran with it.

Shoulda called it Bassline then imo. And let the now bassline heads have Niche as a genre title. Dubstep is not that imaginative Not that Bassline is, but at least these constant connotations of reggae would FUCK OFF!

Chill - I think you need some more "Jah" samples

Only some plucked wah guitar and boat loads of delay can help me now.

[jolly wailer]

ok... ok... I am feeling this post alot more now... and understanding what you're saying... (sorry about my reactions to your initial post!!) -- fact is tho, I never really rated Tempa as the scene dictators this post posits them as --

and whistla, yeah, I've been pretty much thinking for some time now that niche is the way forward (at least for now, I highly rate excitingly squelchy 4x4 bass in the winter months) -- I've been pretty excited about the R8 camp's stuff for a while now and their new crop of releases should be proper cat's pajamas type business

[ozols man]

just put ur full faith in the rudeboys and everything should be fine

[elementalism]

Dubstep is not that imaginative Not that Bassline is, but at least these constant connotations of reggae would FUCK OFF!

Bruv, what are you on?

Do you actually like the music or do you just like namedropping genres to people?

[pete_bubonic]

Dubstep is not that imaginative Not that Bassline is, but at least these constant connotations of reggae would FUCK OFF!

Bruv, what are you on?

Do you actually like the music or do you just like namedropping genres to people?

SO you reckon Dubstep is an imaginative name?!

Fair play... I guess

edit: lol at 'namedropping' genres. hahaha.

Yus bruv I know bare Bassline, innit, was chilling at his house just last night, me and Bassline are like homies bruv.

[renegatus]

I guess you could talk about hip-hop in relation to this whole thing. For years, hip-hop in the mainstream has been transformed into some kind of disgusting guns-bling-and-bitches format, but it's not real hip-hop. As long as people who really love it realise that, and then search deeper in the genre for great producers and groups, we find that it doesn't really matter what happens in the mainstream and it's nothing but a shame for the people who really get off on that music. Mention hip-hop to most people and they'll think Snoop Dogg, Akon, 50 Cent, etc. Mention hip-hop to the heads and they'll pull up J Dilla (R.I.P.), Madlib, MF DOOM, Peanut Butter Wolf, etc.

The same can happen with dubstep. As long as the people on the inside, the underground, love the music and continue to search for the best sounds, their need will be provided by the producers, no matter how destroyed the dubstep tag becomes in the mainstream.

[paulie]

[oddfellow]

Indeed. I'm not so much frustrated by the topic but by the tone of the post and the replys. People are getting OTT. Must be collective period day.

[jolly wailer]

Indeed. I'm not so much frustrated by the topic but by the tone of the post and the replys. People are getting OTT. Must be collective period day.

originally for me it was the use of the 'Nu' prefix