Dubstep at present... i was wondering???

[two oh one]

I do think that the production thing has rather taken over.

Yep. I say the same thing often enough. Too much technical stuff and not enough artistry.

Thank fuck for Mala.

[mudda]

Just because I have to filter through more tunes out of everything that's released doesn't mean the music is losing its charm in all quarters.

A few recent tunes that have managed to take hold of me as the older stuff did:

Ital Tek - Deep Pools
Pinch - Widescreen
Boxcutter - Endothermic

And artists like Mala, Darkwan/DQ1, Appleblim, Shack, Distance, Peverelist, Scuba still keep - and develop constructively - the original ethos.

I used to go into Tribe in Leeds and buy every Dubstep record on the shelf. Those days are long over and, naturally, like with Drum and Bass, the ability to produce something of real novelty becomes harder.

I tuned into Radio 1 last weekend, just before nodding off. There happened to be a recording of Fabio playing that super deep, 'Golden Era' Jungle at a Progression Sessions just before Christmas. I lay there and though, "wow, this shit sounds so fresh, there are so many amazing ideas in the music." And then I realised its all 15 years old...

After thousands of Drum and Bass releases the best ones have incredible longevity and will always sound good. Here's hoping the same will happen to Dubstep.

[*grand*]

some interesting points.. alot of things being thrown up in the air.. i dunno what to say.. maybe because it's 4:15 and i been dancing my dinner of at FWD.

But unless you go out and actively search for the original sounds of dubstep i don't think no one create that mystifying sound.. sure the deepness is still there.. but those tunes that make for instance say yeah this is beautiful rather than this is deep... are few and fair between.... its very hard to describe.. shit by KMA, Fututristics, Madslinky, Ja da flex, zed bias darqwuan, El B, oriss j,those etheral tunes with a gunshot sample or some eerie film sample... check out oris j: confused..

i am knocking any of the producers these days.. they all do a fantastic job.. just is weird that a sound which was very much the beginning of this whole scene has almost completely been forgotten. i doubt 70% of the people on this forum have heard any of the original bad man selection from pre 2003..


it sounds, sounds, sounds like a big drum pan.....

how you mean!!!!

[jay]

its a good point. i havnt been to fwd or dmz for such a long time because generally i know i wont feel about 80-90% of the tunes.
i also get the feeling that its coming around again though, cartain producers are stepping up with tunes that are at home in the era your talking about but also moving things fwd. im genuinly excited about 2008.




www.myspace.com/darkstar001

[shonky]

. just is weird that a sound which was very much the beginning of this whole scene has almost completely been forgotten. i doubt 70% of the people on this forum have heard any of the original bad man selection from pre 2003..

I do get the feeling that quite a lot wouldn't be interested though. It's good to see the originators getting respect but I think the influences of where people were coming from in the early days were minimal techno, house, 2 step and the basslines of old jungle. Now I think it's more recent drum and bass which predominates (higher emphasis on production, drops (which didn't really exist in a lot of early dubstep), more midrange bass). There's still elements of the original influences but they do seem to be fading (found it odd the other year when someone started talking about minimal techno as the new sound in dubstep).

To have a balanced musical diet, I've started listening to more house which seems to have a lot of the qualities that dubstep lacks (and vice versa naturally) - levity and groove for two. The thing is now though that I can't imagine a lot of house producers would want to get into dubstep given how the majority of it sounds - Mala and some of the Anti-social stuff are all that remains.

As for dj's taking more risks - surely they're playing tunes that the crowd would be into no? If people are dancing and enjoying themselves then surely it's the audience that play a part in the change.

[tappy tippon]

Used to love just closing my eyes in the club and zoining out...haven't been able to do that for a long time...

appleblim is a big dj for this! eyes closed and strong floor power. devastating

yes. shackleton also.

it's actually so weird having this post pop up -

last night i had the best 'mystical' dubstep session ever..got out all the old hyperdub (even sine of the dub), DMZ, skull disco..got me feeling well nostalgic, then i put on loads of the new perverelist, martyn, pinch, geiom, and even some of the more recent hyperdub, DMZ and skull disco..and i realised that the whole 'mystical' side dubstep is blaitantly still very much alive in terms of production..it's really just up to the djs to play it..

and like it's been said, these dj do exist..they're just few and far between atm..

[ory]

Want less: clownstep, wobble, wannabe darkness

Want more: swing, depth, syncopation, soul, cut-up female vox

[xor]

...there is no point looking back to try and recapture the zeitgeist, move forward and create your own.

nail on head

But that's exactly what will happen when new producers come along and start looking at dubstep as a genre with a history - they'll pick out the good bits and use them for inspiration and to reconfigure into new shapes.

Music is more cyclical than it is linear...it's the inspirational reconfiguring of what went before that creates a zeitgeist.

I disagree XOR. It's cyclical up to a point in the way that people take things from the past, and change them into something new. Things don't come around and reach exactly the same point, and there are a lot of innovators right now creating really fresh stuff - try shackleton and flying lotus for example. New musical forms always borrow aspects from other music, it seems impossible (especially now) to create something completely alien from anything else, but things that do are often the most striking and exciting for me personally. I find the whole idea of genre-ising thing a bit frustrating in a way but it is nonetheless completely necessary

I think my point is this: what is Shackleton doing now that hasn't been done before? Arabic phrase borrowings, ethnic percussion, sub-bass - all well-trodden paths. Don't get me wrong, I adore Shackleton's music, but all he has done is reconfigured what went before into a fresh arrangement. That's all anyone can do. There is nothing new under the sun.

[hopper]

That new shackleton mix is definitely something new, all the sounds sweeping in and out around these ethnic loops with a hypnotic bassline. All the smooth little edits, and just the whole vibe of the whole mix sounds completely unheard to anything before, it's the atmospherics of this mix that really open it up into something else.

[mayorquimby]

burial - emo

good thread.

[BaronVon]

My main gripe with the scene at the moment is the amount of clutter and unnesessary noise in the music. For the large part the space has been lost, i used to love the minimal elements of Dubstep, it's sparseness.

Like has been said their is lots of good music and producers about. But only heavy jump up stuff is being played in the large majority of clubs.
I really limit the amount of DJ's i will see nowdays.
People like Geiom,EFA, Oneman, Heny G/Antisocial and the Slaughter Mob DJ's and DMZ/Loefah are still playing the "journey music" i like to hear. Building a set is an element of DJ'ing lost to alot of the big names.

People need to take some tips from Techno DJ's. Those guys know how to build a musical journey. No big drops, no wobble and definately no moshing.
Stick on the Jeff Mills Essential mix or a classic Derrick Maye tape and you will hear some gifted DJing.

This problem is essentially all down to the DJ's and the crowd. The music is out there it just needs to get played. Stop bawling for a rewind everytime a wobble steps up and then maybe the DJ's will play abit deeper.

[umkhontowesizwe]

a lot of good points raised in this thread, not really got anything to add that hasn't already been said. i find myself listening to less and less dubstep these days. having to sift through a lot of mediocre stuff to find one amazing tune is not the one

[i-line]

over the last few months.. i have heard allot of people talk about this issue.. so why does it take someone like me to address it..... maybe i am gonna have to get a weapon of choice .. book me some time of and hold some of those producers to ransom.. make a beat.. that inspires me or its the paddle ... lol..

im just saying there has been an undercurrent of unrest... so why hasn't anyone said hang on a second. maybe we all need to start listening to garage again ...

or those that stopped, pick it back up.

???

Grand, a lot of people have brought this subject up in various different guises but they've usually been told to stfu or that if they don't like it they should make their own beats. The idea that a listener or critic shouldn't be able to have an opinion if they don't make their own stuff is seriously off point.

But maybe because people know you're the Grand Master they're respecting your opinion a bit more

My little thread about the change in dance aesthetics at nights was kind of approaching this topic but it mainly ended up with me being accused of being like Jane Torvill or something, lol!

I think the reason there's been a move away from the two step / garage beat based stuff is that it's too hard for a lot of people to dance to. And when you want to engage this 'lot of people' and grow the scene commercially then you need to flatten the beat, hence half-step and tek-step. If you've got a nice strong 1,2, 1,2 then you don't need to worry so much about those annoying k-chi, k-chi bits in between that cause you to have to do something creative with your hips.

A lot of producers seem to have made up for a certain loss of subtlety with a tendency to make everything really extra, which results in the 8 hour brock out marathons that we sometimes get now. Which is fair enough - I'm all for pushing boundaries, but it has to be for the right reasons and there needs to be a sense of direction. Once you've done everything to the extreme what happens when there's nothing left to surprise people with?

I hope that as time goes on dubstep is able retain enough of a sense of identity to be able to evolve with integrity, rather than becoming a fossilised formula that refuses to move on, as is often the case when genres become acceptable in the mainstream and become normalised. Only time will tell...

[*grand*]

hmm


Kingston arena gym Mondays, wednesdays .. Tasse Sunday.. come and learn to do something with your hips....

it is interesting.. some great insights in this thread.. big it.

[umkhontowesizwe]

I think the reason there's been a move away from the two step / garage beat based stuff is that it's too hard for a lot of people to dance to. And when you want to engage this 'lot of people' and grow the scene commercially then you need to flatten the beat, hence half-step and tek-step. If you've got a nice strong 1,2, 1,2 then you don't need to worry so much about those annoying k-chi, k-chi bits in between that cause you to have to do something creative with your hips.

can't really agree with this. 2 step makes me want to dance a lot more than most half step beats.

[i-line]

I think the reason there's been a move away from the two step / garage beat based stuff is that it's too hard for a lot of people to dance to. And when you want to engage this 'lot of people' and grow the scene commercially then you need to flatten the beat, hence half-step and tek-step. If you've got a nice strong 1,2, 1,2 then you don't need to worry so much about those annoying k-chi, k-chi bits in between that cause you to have to do something creative with your hips.

can't really agree with this. 2 step makes me want to dance a lot more than most half step beats.

Yes, I know and I agree, but I'm talking about 'a lot of people', not you. A lot of people don't like 2 step.

[jim]

Funny that 2 step garage was about 1000 times more succesfull than dubstep in its day

[umkhontowesizwe]

Funny that 2 step garage was about 1000 times more succesfull than dubstep in its day

haha, exactly. how many dubstep hits in the top 40 so far?

[xor]

Funny that 2 step garage was about 1000 times more succesfull than dubstep in its day

haha, exactly. how many dubstep hits in the top 40 so far?

Which is exactly what this thread is about I'd've said. The deeper the music, the further away from the charts it becomes. The more dubstep becomes focused on concise generic structures, big 'hooky' riffs, big drops and jump-up tracks, the more acceptable to the mainstream and to commerce it becomes.

[umkhontowesizwe]

Funny that 2 step garage was about 1000 times more succesfull than dubstep in its day

haha, exactly. how many dubstep hits in the top 40 so far?

Which is exactly what this thread is about I'd've said. The deeper the music, the further away from the charts it becomes. The more dubstep becomes focused on concise generic structures, big 'hooky' riffs, big drops and jump-up tracks, the more acceptable to the mainstream and to commerce it becomes.

sorry i should've stated, that was simply a response to the assertion that dubstep lost the swing because most people find halfstep easier to dance to. which is clearly contradicted by the popularity of 2 step garage in the clubs and in the charts way back when.