Dubstep joins DnB down a dead end alley

[tes la rok]

a big part of drum and basses problems started when it keep getting faster & faster...remember it started at around 150=160bpm...

hehe i have one jungle tune i did 94 and it's 150 bpm if i remember right and it was my first tune i properly composed. sounds shit.. but true that speed started to get fastern and fastern. and nowdays no space left in tunes..

[Horza]

On the subject of Drum and Bass. I think its the same as it always has been but its just now we have the wobble jump up tunes thanks to twisted individual(who actually made some good wobble tunes) and people are getting older. Theres only so much inovative stuff you can do. Drum and bass has now done it all and now your bored with it and cant understand why and so blame producers and the scene.

Gotta disagree completely there mate. There are people still pushing boundaries but when you go to most nights that music will never get played, if you search there is still groundbreaking DnB its just not readily available and blasted down your ear at every night like all the commercialized (and money making) stuff. Innovation is only over when producers stop innovating and many people are still doing that.

[djshiva]

Drum and bass seemed to get into macho positing, extended virtuosity, and maximalist rhetoric. Almost like metal did. Could be a reflection on the times and the drugs. Society makes the art, so look at the world you're living in for answers. Dubstep seems to extend into a vertical plane of depth, unlike drum and bass which was horizontal/linear. It truly was a form of Baroque art. Dubstep's duality of feel (70 v. 140 bpm) is truly what makes it special. Some dnb does this too but dubstep breaks conventional subdivision of beat and oscillates between feels instantly. It has time to. It's not trying to beat the world into submission.

yesyesyesyes! i think this is probably one of the more succinct and dead-on things i have ever read comparing the two.

And if we all lived forever history would not repeat itself, but we don't, and it does. Everyone on this planet will be dead in 100 years and a new crop of monkeys will show up, miffed because their scene has died. Again. They'll make tunes that are so far ahead, they're timeless. That's my goal.

Hell. Fucking. Yes.

[Horza]

blah blah blah blah....

couldn't all this energy be better spent on actually producing some of the "innovative" tunes you all pine for?

A producer isn't just a machine who brings out tunes, hes a human being who does other stuff aswell you know! WHERES YOUR FEELINGS! Haha

[shonky]

Drum and bass seemed to get into macho positing, extended virtuosity, and maximalist rhetoric. Almost like metal did. Could be a reflection on the times and the drugs. Society makes the art, so look at the world you're living in for answers. Dubstep seems to extend into a vertical plane of depth, unlike drum and bass which was horizontal/linear. It truly was a form of Baroque art. Dubstep's duality of feel (70 v. 140 bpm) is truly what makes it special. Some dnb does this too but dubstep breaks conventional subdivision of beat and oscillates between feels instantly. It has time to. It's not trying to beat the world into submission.

Jungle did start out as half-speed reggae b-lines against sped up breaks, think this was pretty much the case from around 92/93-96/97. I think although dubstep is hyped as having this duality, a lot of it is actually either one or the other. To be honest, 80's hardcore and speed metal probably exploited this way before either

[Horza]

drum and bass died when pendulum brought THAT screaming lead sound. everyone in a attempt to get volume now uses the highest loudest sounds possible, not the drums and bass which founded the scene. lets hope dubstep learns from drum and bass's mistake

I don't think that is was DnB's mistake or fault, it happens to another genre of dance music, "golden era's" as people call them end. I believe its healthy that this happens in music in general as something new has to come from the mess!

[stelf]

going back in time shows that the dub step (itself) has been around for quite a lot, and can even be traced back to different cultures, some of them non-english. the drum is consistent in time being the very basic way to do rhythm, bass tubes (i.e. digaredoo) have been popular among number of tribes, people generally appreciate vibrations.

which seems like the vibe has always been around, we simply found new ways of getting it. and i don't see a specific reason why shouldn't a specific genre mutate or cease to be creative completely. it leaves legacy, that being or not commercial, is then again remixed in new stuff, that's even better.

i'm glad dubstep is here, cause idm got so boring&intellectual, drumandbass is fast indeed, and hey, we all need more bass. but i can bet what's coming next may even be better...

[overcast radio]

Thanks everyone who had great positive things to say. Sure, there's a big connection between UK jungle and Jamaican MCs. Has everyone heard Rumble In The Jungle? (Soul Jazz) Jamaica being under UK rule until 1962, right? Definitely some cultural exchange going on here.

I'm too tired to continue belaboring the ups and downs of styles. Jungle seemed to take a slow feel and speed it up wher dubstep seems to slow down a fast feel. Either way it's fucking cool.

[spencertron]

Without straying too off topic, some words rehashed in my own way...

The biggest failing to electronic music comes from the industry of selling novel technology (such as propellorheads Reason) which offers an easy fast track route to sounding like the big names of your favourite genre...check your factory presets...i'm sure there's a 'drum n bass' sub or break, or DnB kit built in (i don't use it anymore, but thats beside the point).

Newer producers can chuck out tracks at an alarming rate, and will have all 'those sounds' less the soul (this is not a blanket statement, just a second hand thought). this i hope will not happen to dubstep, but i'm sure it's an almost guaranteed trend with software company's to offer 'the sound' in order to sell products. And people start producing with these factory presets (i'm sure we all do it, it's part of the process of learning but seems to be more apparent the more popular things get) as opposed to hand editing, micro editing, fine tuning and sound designing at low levels.

House music was at one point very good, now it's a steaming sack of shit. it's like no thought goes into the music anymore, just something that can be easily mixed. My little brother i'm sure could knock out a House track by accident with Reason,

there are threads on DOA which i find a bit odd...such as 'What key is most DnB in?' and 'what bpm is most DnB in'...the purpose of which is so that the producer could get tracks on playlists and mixed in well...i'm not slating this method of creativity, i just think it must be a massive compromise to the development of any music.

The big early producers, being 'pioneers' / almost creator's of a genre, are never really bound/tied down to trends or styles unlike the 'emulators' though brilliant as they all are, they are merely following the paths laid out by the pioneers, the paths which they themselves never had to think about at all. they are the sound designers, my hope is that the next generation of producers are all as curious and careful with their output.

(i say all this and i got Skreamism 4 the other day, The track '2D' where he has used the famous preset factory melody pattern of 'BlueMatrix' instrument in Reaktor 5, shocker!:o ) still, good track.

im not saying there's a right or wrong, if something sounds good, then it sounds good, it's just some food for thought.

[overcast radio]

So true with all musics. Look at EW Ministry of Sound (a metal library). It's (partly) a drag and drop world, where "good enough" is acceptable. I personally, coming from a commercial/lib world decided long ago not to use any third party loops, but that's just me. I'm all for people's learning process, confidence builders, and ease of use with presets, but after a while, hopefully you get better and move on.

I've noticed a trend with producers in LA (not dubstep, TV). Their deadlines are usually so tight that they cannot explore. That's why when you watch The Apprentice, The Bachelor, Hell's Kitchen, et al...you hear the same sounds. They all use the same libs.

I guess it all depends on what kind of producer you want to be. I love analog gear, mics, pres. I love sound design programs like Audiomulch, Metasynth, CDP. The libs I use are orchestral. If you have enough experience, you can something out of nothing!

[Littlefoot]

from someone who teaches Reason to teenagers for a living I dont think you could more wrong with ..

The biggest failing to electronic music comes from the industry of selling novel technology (such as propellorheads Reason) which offers an easy fast track route to sounding like the big names of your favourite genre...check your factory presets...i'm sure there's a 'drum n bass' sub or break, or DnB kit built in (i don't use it anymore, but thats beside the point).

ok yeah those presets are jokes, but they are a great way to get some results when youre learning the ropes

come on man, you're talking about people bending the boundaries of muisc straight from the womb here.

People SHOULD be making music, it goes further than what our precious ears like, stuff like Reason being so easy to get hold of, so easy to use is doing generations of messed up kids a favour by giving them some results.

Maybe even a few years down the line theyll be running things that will send your musical mind crazy with delight, instead of robbing your grandma.

[Littlefoot]

(i say all this and i got Skreamism 4 the other day, The track '2D' where he has used the famous preset factory melody pattern of 'BlueMatrix' instrument in Reaktor 5, shocker!:o ) still, good track.

allow it. it sounds fucking great, most people (rightly) dont give a fuck where stuff comes from coz thats not what its about, production is a competition, if Skream likes it, it's his and it blew the scene away when it popped up. Brilliant track.

[shonky]

People SHOULD be making music, it goes further than what our precious ears like, stuff like Reason being so easy to get hold of, so easy to use is doing generations of messed up kids a favour by giving them some results.

Maybe even a few years down the line theyll be running things that will send your musical mind crazy with delight, instead of robbing your grandma.

Yeah I agree, there may be some good ideas to come even if the presets have been rinsed. Some of the grime I've heard over the years made me think "where the fuck did that come from", even if the sounds had been used before, the way they were put together was still original. Burial seems to use an awful lot of the same sounds, but musically it's still interesting. Whether something is good or not depends more on musicality than sound design I think, even in electronic genres.

[fiasco]

drum and bass died when pendulum brought THAT screaming lead sound. everyone in a attempt to get volume now uses the highest loudest sounds possible, not the drums and bass which founded the scene. lets hope dubstep learns from drum and bass's mistake

I don't think that is was DnB's mistake or fault, it happens to another genre of dance music, "golden era's" as people call them end. I believe its healthy that this happens in music in general as something new has to come from the mess!

lol im not blaming dnb. just giving my thoughts on the change that happened and why. u need progression in all forms wether u like them or not. its just a shame when u hold somthing dear and it changes so that the popularity of the new sound dwarfs the founding blocks. maybe im just gettin old! . an advancement in technology also has a lot to do with it

[slothrop]

lol im not blaming dnb. just giving my thoughts on the change that happened and why. u need progression in all forms wether u like them or not. its just a shame when u hold somthing dear and it changes so that the popularity of the new sound dwarfs the founding blocks. maybe im just gettin old! . an advancement in technology also has a lot to do with it

Dunno about that. I reckon about six months after the first caveman began banging two rocks together he was swamped by derivative biters banging very similar rocks together in a slightly less good way.

Its a fact of life, innit. Maybe easy access to software means there's more shite out there these days, but on the other hand now we've got a whole forum here to help pick out the real deal from the cheap knockoffs.

[Littlefoot]

People SHOULD be making music, it goes further than what our precious ears like, stuff like Reason being so easy to get hold of, so easy to use is doing generations of messed up kids a favour by giving them some results.

Maybe even a few years down the line theyll be running things that will send your musical mind crazy with delight, instead of robbing your grandma.

Yeah I agree, there may be some good ideas to come even if the presets have been rinsed. Some of the grime I've heard over the years made me think "where the fuck did that come from", even if the sounds had been used before, the way they were put together was still original. Burial seems to use an awful lot of the same sounds, but musically it's still interesting. Whether something is good or not depends more on musicality than sound design I think, even in electronic genres.

there is an element of limiting tools, the starving artist theory I guess. Give a man 5000 synths hell probably make a self indulgent mess, give a man one synth, one drum machine and a sequencer, and to make something good hes gotta try really hard, but the outcome will be better

[fiasco]

People SHOULD be making music, it goes further than what our precious ears like, stuff like Reason being so easy to get hold of, so easy to use is doing generations of messed up kids a favour by giving them some results.

Maybe even a few years down the line theyll be running things that will send your musical mind crazy with delight, instead of robbing your grandma.

Yeah I agree, there may be some good ideas to come even if the presets have been rinsed. Some of the grime I've heard over the years made me think "where the fuck did that come from", even if the sounds had been used before, the way they were put together was still original. Burial seems to use an awful lot of the same sounds, but musically it's still interesting. Whether something is good or not depends more on musicality than sound design I think, even in electronic genres.

there is an element of limiting tools, the starving artist theory I guess. Give a man 5000 synths hell probably make a self indulgent mess, give a man one synth, one drum machine and a sequencer, and to make something good hes gotta try really hard, but the outcome will be better

exactly. good point. the readily avaiable synths with presets and the lack of quality control means a load of tosh is realeased.

dj shadow made entroducing with 1 deck and an akai

[geiom]

It has to be said (again) that there IS loads of amazing stuff out there - much of it not released yet -

hopefully we are showing that on the radio show we have been doing...

[djshiva]

Dunno about that. I reckon about six months after the first caveman began banging two rocks together he was swamped by derivative biters banging very similar rocks together in a slightly less good way.

[alex deadman]

People always moan about DnB (including myself) however, it has suceeded as a genre. I would rest easy If I thought the scene would be as strong as DnB is ten years from npw.