define "forward thinking"

[ozols man]

i hear this phrase thrown around a lot regarding various tunes, labels, etc. you know the drill.

At that moment when you hear a tune for the first time, and you think to yourself, automatically, "this is pushing things forward!" or "this is the future!" how, as best as you could, would you define what it takes in your eyes for something to be "forward thinking".

in before the everything has already been done crew.

lol yeh i know wot u mean "reh reh burials so forward thinking"

basically can someone actually sit down and on A4 write a list of notes on why Burial is forward thinking

edit: but yeh in my eyes its just about tryng to come up with new sounds and styles, always staying one step ahead of the game when it comes to ur own productions

[corpsey]

There isn't really a forward direction to go in is there, I think it just means that someone is doing something different to the status quo, trying something new, acting against stagnation.

[misk]

i would argue that there is only a handful of producers who have really challenged the originators quality and it is these producers who can be thought of as 'forward thinking' because, as i said before, it's a relative concept and the originators provide the bench mark.

Yes! i can definitely agree with you there. A benchmark has been set, and continues to be set - be many of the originators. I feel that we give them the benefit of the doubt sometimes, as i dont believe it's possible to have a consistently amazing output. you're gonna have some misses occasionally, but the dubstep "sound" being developed by many of the originators feels very mature, despite many of the minimalist qualities of some tracks.

There are so many tracks released by people like benga, shackleton, vex'd, etc, that i hear and thing "why didnt i think of that! its so simple, yet effective." but, as loefah once said in an interview (paraphrasing here), if its already been done, why would you go and do it again? Why would he use mala's ideas, when those ideas are identifiably mala's?

so yeah, to me, forward thinking seems to be that feeling i get when i hear a tune and that phrase "why didnt i think if that!?" pops into my head. Also, i agree with corpsey, there isnt really a "forward", but more of a branching off into various directions. it seems like his definition of "acting against stagnation" is a concise definition to me. It's definitely not the producer's job to carry the genre on his back every time he makes a tune though. Everyone wants to make the next big track, or be responsible for a new direction in this musical movement, but i think that, ironically, moving forward is something happening gradually, by a large collective of producers and DJs.

@flippo: its not that i dont "get it" man. Im interested in your opinions on what it means for a track to be forward thinking. how do you define it, etc...

[manray]

Haha if you define forward thinking then its not really forward thinking any more is it?

[misk]

Haha if you define forward thinking then its not really forward thinking any more is it?

according to your definition maybe.

[primate]

it's simply when i hear something that i have been waiting to hear but haven't heard it yet. even more so when i didn't even know that i was waiting.....

[blizzardmusic]

I will be honest, but I don't really use vocabulary that I've never said before. I've never used forward thinking while talking, because I wouldn't know what context to use it in anyway!

[test conditions]

I think for me it's when an element from another genre is introduced, or hinted at that makes me sit up and take notice. It might be a sound, an arrangement, a musical styling, just something that wasn't in dubstep before but has been brought in to spice up the ingredients.

[blackdown]

its fairly easy to put 'forward thinking' into simple terms.

in any genre or collection of artists at any given time, there are musical ideas that are shared. so for example in dubstep circa 2008, a lot of producers try to put at least one snare on the third beat of the bar.

so by contrast to this, a 'forward thinking' idea would be to put snares anywhere but the third beat.

of course there is one caveat: you could just go an re-hash a used idea, say 90s dance music, at dubstep tempo. this is harder to call 'forward thinking' because it takes an idea wholesale from the past.

But taking a 90s dance music idea and twisting it around, might be more forward thinking, as it suggests new posibilities.

So while 'forward thinking' has a meaning, the term isn't specifically used very much, but you can think of it as an equivalent for 'innovation.'

[blizzardmusic]

its fairly easy to put 'forward thinking' into simple terms.

in any genre or collection of artists at any given time, there are musical ideas that are shared. so for example in dubstep circa 2008, a lot of producers try to put at least one snare on the third beat of the bar.

so by contrast to this, a 'forward thinking' idea would be to put snares anywhere but the third beat.

of course there is one caveat: you could just go an re-hash a used idea, say 90s dance music, at dubstep tempo. this is harder to call 'forward thinking' because it takes an idea wholesale from the past.

But taking a 90s dance music idea and twisting it around, might be more forward thinking, as it suggests new posibilities.

So while 'forward thinking' has a meaning, the term isn't specifically used very much, but you can think of it as an equivalent for 'innovation.'

NOH

So forward thinking can unintentionally be plagiarism?

[misk]

So while 'forward thinking' has a meaning, the term isn't specifically used very much, but you can think of it as an equivalent for 'innovation.'

good point. thats what i think of as well. so would you say that innovation would be considered a reaction to the status quo? I suppose innovative could also be used to describe someone who is not reacting to the mob mentality, and is instead, simply doing his own thing.

maybe i just answered my own question

I suppose my goal with this thread was to incite some discourse regarding current trends in dubstep, and the abstract concept of "innovation" in a musical genre. It's really interesting to me, as most dance music, i.e. house, as an example, may have a few sub genres, but seems to thrive on the reintroduction of old ideas, whereas a genre like drum n bass, or dubstep, seems to place much more emphasis on being original, and innovative. This is not necessarily a positive thing, but i think it definitely says something about the people involved in said genres.

[shonky]

Forward thinking is retro very quickly these days though. Plenty of the more original sounds are often more backward looking anyway ironically. Producers that go on their own path and make musical combinations that purists sniff at are generally the ones to watch out for.

[misk]

Producers that go on their own path and make musical combinations that purists sniff at are generally the ones to watch out for.

agreed.

[joe muggs]

The futuristic aesthetic in music has always been vitally important. Not the only important urge but without it, so much of the stuff we love wouldn't exist. Read Kodwo Eshun's 'More Brilliant Than The Sun' book, which focuses on science fiction imagery and the desire to make something SOUND like the future that goes all the way back to jazz, and runs through p-funk, techno, jungle and such.

Loads of the orginal Detroit techno boys were into Alvin Toffler. His book 'Future Shock' is another essential for anyone who is interested in elaborating on these kind of ideas. He says - rightly I think - that science fiction should be taught in school. Thing is "thinking forwards", as it were, whether in movies, stories or music DOESN'T mean necessarily predicting the future or saying THIS is the direction things are going, but rather it's a way of thinking that acknowledges that the future is coming and it's more complex and weird than we could possibly imagine - it's a way of thinking that helps us be ready for multiple futures. People in the main bury their heads in the sand, hiding behind political ideologies or blind hedonism, not addressing the fact that technology is STILL accelerating in its diversification and influence on absolutely every area in life. To be 'forward thinking' is simply to take on this fact, to accept the absolutely mind-blowing quantity of data that flows round the world and the possibilities of human thought and tech for creation and destruction... and not be driven batshit insane by this. I wrote a long piece about this a long time ago, I'll dig it out....... I'd love to hear more of Kode9's thoughts on this too as a lot of the stuff he's written and talked about in the past is to do with the fact that we already live in a real Future Shock world I think....... Fuck it I'm not making a lot of sense here, think I'm a bit delirious tonight.

[blackdown]

futurism and "forward thinking" = two separate things...

[numaestro]

The little video thingy-me-bob on Daturas profile square is a good example of "Forward thinking" I reckon.

Eric Cantona was forward thinking - or perhaps he was just a thinking forward Not sure if Ronaldinho is a big thinker - does have a big smile back on his face right now mind - bless.

[ashley]

I thought "Forward Thinking" was just thinking about FWD

[ikonika]

I thought "Forward Thinking" was just thinking about FWD

[slothrop]

I suppose my goal with this thread was to incite some discourse regarding current trends in dubstep, and the abstract concept of "innovation" in a musical genre.

Steady on!

I guess when I say a label or a producer or a DJ or a whole genre is forward thinking I mean that every now and then I find myself thinking "wtf is this? It's brilliant!" or words to that effect.

I think it's important to remember that 'forward thinking' music isn't always the music that prides itself on being forward thinking - there's a lot of predictable and derivative 'intelligent drum and bass' that people thought at the time was really progressive and innovative just because it rehashed cliches that they associated with progression and innovation. Likewise IDM. Meanwhile a lot of genuinely exciting and innovative scenes have existed that didn't give that much of a shit about 'progress' and 'cleverness' and give the impression of being dumb as a box of rocks and only interested in mashing up the party, but were actually doing that in a totally off-the-wall way.

[boomnoise]

all about those 'fackin' 'ell' moments.