Overcompression - The Loudness War

westernsynthetics · Post by **westernsynthetics** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:44 am

Auan wrote:I don't think anyone's suggesting we stop using compressors altogether. That would be stupid.

indeed

jtransition · Post by **jtransition** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:37 pm

NoSpin wrote:seems like alot of "dance" music genres shouldnt really be affected by this,,, theyre supposed to be loud... techno/house.... dont think theres meant to be a lot of dynamics... the argument can be made that its ruining rock music, but i dont really give a fuck what theyre doing to rock music, most of it ruined itself a long time ago. they want their song to be as loud as the one that just got played before it on the radio.
folk music isnt getting over compressed, classical isnt, jazz isnt, its just commercial rock, hip hop, and dance music

Why in your opinion is dance music supposed to be loud?

FWIW Compression is not the problem it's the operators, Ok badly designed plug- inns do not help but when good compressors are used properly it is a valuable tool both in production and mastering.

Jason

__________ · Post by **__________** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:19 pm

two oh one wrote: Stop pretending, just write hard house and Techno and have done with it...

please don't

interesting point you made though

thesis · Post by **thesis** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:51 pm

two oh one wrote:
Stop pretending, just write hard house and Techno and have done with it...

I've been thinking the same thing lately. Then I went to Subway in Rotterdam last friday (Reso/Rusko/Martyn/Pressure). Some tracks were dropped that were distinctly hard house. 4/4 kick, no snare. No reggae/dub influences.

It was interesting, and I did like the tracks. Nothing wrong with hard house!

But yeah, I'd hate to see dubstep be absorbed by another genre, or go 4/4 because of pressure from more mainstream listeners. eg. more people dance when its a 4/4 beat, so DJ plays more of that.

two oh one · Post by **two oh one** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:42 pm

Good to see you, Jtransition.

quantum soul · Post by **quantum soul** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:50 am

I think there's always pressure to write the bashiest tune you can, as it's the bangers which physically grab you the most on the dancefloor and really set a crowd off. Compression is a short cut to that end. However, almost all subtlety/nuance is lost in the process as every tune merges into a wall of sound.

I find the dubstep tunes which have the most interest for me over time are those that have spaces and nuances which actually allow my mind to move through them and check out what's going on, rather than just being continually bombarded with said wall of sound.

It's kind of a yin yang thing I think - bashy tunes for instant impact; deep and intricate for longevity.

All things in moderation, eh? And that goes for 4 to the floor...

Guy / QS

alphacat · Post by **alphacat** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:45 pm

Many of you already know this, so apologies for stating the obvious, but-

Compression is used in any beat-heavy genre to lend chest thump to the kicks, mainly.

It's also being [ab]used as a substitute for proper EQing though - fuggerz who don't know anything about notching/shelving frequencies, etc., say "ach! I tnuc hear me b-line over this bangin' beat" and know just enough about compression to know that it'll make it cut through the mix a little more sharply without understanding why.

And using it as a trick for pop tunes to stand out is nothing new - Electric Light Orchestra in the 70's used to compress the hell out of their tracks because they were getting played back on AM car stereo speakers, mainly... and that was a studio trick they borrowed from the Beatles and went even more loco with.

Steve Albini, a 'name' rock producer who's made some great records, hates compression and in interviews gives some very interesting reasons why he won't use it, mostly having to do with A) getting good, loud levels in the recording phase and B) proper EQing with an eye on headroom.

At the end of the day, compression is just another tool to use (or not) to get things to sound right, whatever the fuck that means. I think there's definitely a time and a place, but making all your tracks' waveforms look like a big brick turd with no nuance - well, we'll see if those tunes stand the test of time.

parameter · Post by **parameter** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:10 pm

Nice thread

I also am getting -litterally- tired with overcompressed music. Contemporary DnB and the stupid 'minimal' techno sound like a joke to me. Maybe one of the reasons DS attracts me so well

amongst other music, like classical.

Anyway, did you read the article(s) written by Bob Katz -a mastering guru-, in which he advocates the end of the loudness war? I am trying to master/use his K-system and it has really improved some skills...

check out the article: level-practices-part-2-includes-the-k-system

it's just one part of this goldmine of knowledge in the world of dynamics, mastering and digital recording...

enjoy

whineo · Post by **whineo** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:41 pm

Batfink wrote: if you put a quiet mixdown online, most people will slate it and/or think its really badly produced.

yup ...

a good tune is a good tune and all that but that quote is the sad reality.

I cant wait until I have that ultra loud clarity in my productions. Not going to stress about it though, it will come with time and practice im sure.
...however, It will just be another production technique to draw upon when the project calls for it. Loud compression , subtle compression whatever, learn as much as you can It will only benefit you in the long run if you're focusing on your own style.

__________ · Post by **__________** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:35 pm

parameter wrote: check out the article: level-practices-part-2-includes-the-k-system

it's just one part of this goldmine of knowledge in the world of dynamics, mastering and digital recording...

enjoy

cheers for that, just read the whole thing, very interesting. i swear i learn more from the people on this forum than i do at college

ferrotype · Post by **ferrotype** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:09 pm

£10 Bag wrote: cheers for that, just read the whole thing, very interesting. i swear i learn more from the people on this forum than i do at college

thats what college is like tbh, like i started researchin shit like when i was 14 when i started djin then i got to college and it was like i already know this what else are you guna teach me. but like im constantly learning stuff off some of the lecturers that go the extra mile to help and stuff.

in terms of the whole compression disscussion, i think that if having hardly compression on a track feels right and sounds right to you then its all good. but the whole loudness thing is sort of like the norm now and once someones had the norm its hard for people to break from it.

im just guna have a nose at those links that parameter's posted seems of interest.

parameter · Post by **parameter** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:35 am

Let's turn this into a RECOMMENDED READ

parameter wrote:
Anyway, did you read the article(s) written by Bob Katz -a mastering guru-, in which he advocates the end of the loudness war? I am trying to master/use his K-system and it has really improved some skills...

check out the article: level-practices-part-2-includes-the-k-system

it's just one part of this goldmine of knowledge in the world of dynamics, mastering and digital recording...

shonky · Post by **shonky** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:06 pm

parameter wrote:Let's turn this into a RECOMMENDED READ

parameter wrote:
Anyway, did you read the article(s) written by Bob Katz -a mastering guru-, in which he advocates the end of the loudness war? I am trying to master/use his K-system and it has really improved some skills...

check out the article: level-practices-part-2-includes-the-k-system

it's just one part of this goldmine of knowledge in the world of dynamics, mastering and digital recording...

Add it to the dubstep bible thing up top. Was very interesting, well found

daft cunt · Post by **daft cunt** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:52 pm

Shonky wrote:
parameter wrote:Let's turn this into a RECOMMENDED READ

parameter wrote:
Anyway, did you read the article(s) written by Bob Katz -a mastering guru-, in which he advocates the end of the loudness war? I am trying to master/use his K-system and it has really improved some skills...

check out the article: level-practices-part-2-includes-the-k-system

it's just one part of this goldmine of knowledge in the world of dynamics, mastering and digital recording...

Add it to the dubstep bible thing up top. Was very interesting, well found

Done

mudda · Post by **mudda** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:27 pm

I don't think 4/4 is a bad thing, and it shouldn't be associated with poor tunes. What's between the drums is the important aspect: look no further than Mala's work, there's always been a House element to it. Busier rhythms helped the music avoid stagnating in the halfstep sound, anyhow.

The obvious thing is that compression will make a poor tune louder and therefore more gratifying on first listen. But pure sonics do not neccessarily equal good music...

foodstampz · Post by **foodstampz** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:01 pm

Just wondering. do you guys use a lot of compression besides mastering.?
i try to just compress the kik and get everything else to a good volume from there.. its all about headroom really. how much you can add reveb before drowing the sound.

peace

decklyn · Post by **decklyn** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:51 am

I'm horrible for this. getting better...

keep it off the mains and on the individual channels.

decklyn · Post by **decklyn** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:19 am

wtf am I saying. brickwall mutliband @ -inf db or stfu

tes la rok · Post by **tes la rok** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:56 am

compression is really handy tool to smooth worst peaks etc, but if u dont know what u doing u can fuck up the mixdown. especially with vocals u usually need compression.

it's just nowdays people automatically thinks compression = brick wall....

batfink · Post by **batfink** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:01 pm

compression, of sorts, is also to be thanked for making music sound as phat as it does. It depends enitrely on the tune.

Cybotron - Threshold, for example, just wouldn't be the tune it is were it not for the lovely fuzzy warbles all over it.

But, i agree, its easy to overdo it.

Then again, listen to the hypercompressed Rustie remix of Spliff Dub, and that massive over-compression/limiting thing just sounds incredible. I almost prefer it to the vinyl version which sounds just a bit too clean.....

Overcompression - The Loudness War

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