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kidlogic
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Post by kidlogic » Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:41 pm

Chef wrote:
Every added piece of equipment you run audio through will affect the audio in some way, why add more colour when you dont need to.

It may not colour it more than a mixer and i'm aware of this, but a kam or numark mixer would colour the sound in a worse way to an Allen and Heath mixer, every bit of kit brings it's own inaccuracies and raises the noise floor level and distortion ratio...

The only way to have the cleanest signal possible is to use the highest quality wires and components(the less the better) while using the shortest lengths of wires possible.

Running your vinyl through the serato box adds another unnecasry bit of kit and colour to the audio path.
The serato box needs to be powered for it to work as a vinyl run through which means the sound has to be processed, that's another stage.
If it was exactly the same as good piece of wire it wouldn't need to be powered to work.

It doesn't make your vinyl sound shit, but it certaintly ain't making it sound any better.
Serato User wrote:Is there quality loss when the phono signal is passed through the device opposed to the phono signal going straight into the mixer?
Steve M from RANE wrote: No. One the one hand, one could argue that the added cabling length required could technically degrade any signal (which is always true when using unbalanced audio cable). In other words, it's not a good idea to extend a turntable's output cable length since this lowers the signal quality. Yet the active (powered) internal circuitry in the SL 1 significantly improves the signal-drive capability - meaning it could also be argued that this approach improves the signal quality as cable is added. In reality, it's a wash - there's no quality lost.

Note that when playing back computer files, you can greatly out perform any and all vinyl and any and all turntables ever made by using high quality audio files.
Nothing personal against you at all Chef.

I used to sell audio equipment and have a degree in audio engineering. I value sound quality. I wouldnt have switched if I thought it sounded bad in any way. The coloration from the box is no different than any other piece of Rane gear, which is very minimal. Rane is one of the best DJ equip companies I have used, read up on and worked with (their sales reps are dope).

I LOVE vinyl, I just cant afford $12-14 for one (hopefully two) tunes on one vinyl especially when I can get tunes for $2 or less on other sites and can play unreleased tunes from around the world minutes after downloading them. Those benifits far outweigh any slight coloration of the sound the box may add or the few khz on the top of the sound spectrum that a well processed 320 looses (and that 75% of people cant hear anyway)

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Post by chef » Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:18 pm

Serato User wrote:Is there quality loss when the phono signal is passed through the device opposed to the phono signal going straight into the mixer?
Steve M from RANE wrote: No. One the one hand, one could argue that the added cabling length required could technically degrade any signal (which is always true when using unbalanced audio cable). In other words, it's not a good idea to extend a turntable's output cable length since this lowers the signal quality. Yet the active (powered) internal circuitry in the SL 1 significantly improves the signal-drive capability - meaning it could also be argued that this approach improves the signal quality as cable is added. In reality, it's a wash - there's no quality lost.

Note that when playing back computer files, you can greatly out perform any and all vinyl and any and all turntables ever made by using high quality audio files.
I wouldn't quote this guy like it's the gospel.

His statement in bold is true and what i've been saying, LOL.

The statemet in italic confirms what I've been saying to your argument about it not being the same as a normal wire, i.e ''active (powered) internal circuitry''.

How this active (powered) internal circuitry in the SL 1 significantly improves the signal-drive capability I don't see and will mail him about because that's rubbish talk used to sell gear.

What could the circuitry possibly do to significantly improve the sound(while colouring the sound)????

Amplify the sound...

Equalize the sound, i.e Roll off's, dips, boosts etc at different frequencies...

Limit or compress the sound...

I cant think of any other magical way this box could make it sound better and if it does use any similar techniques then it brings it back round to my original argument that it colours the sound!! LOL
Some may think for better, some for the worse, but the signal path through certainly isn't as clean as a direct output from the deck into the mixer, that's all I was saying and I aint wrong!!

Nothing personal against you at all Chef.

I used to sell audio equipment and have a degree in audio engineering. I value sound quality. I wouldnt have switched if I thought it sounded bad in any way. The coloration from the box is no different than any other piece of Rane gear, which is very minimal. Rane is one of the best DJ equip companies I have used, read up on and worked with (their sales reps are dope).

I LOVE vinyl, I just cant afford $12-14 for one (hopefully two) tunes on one vinyl especially when I can get tunes for $2 or less on other sites and can play unreleased tunes from around the world minutes after downloading them. Those benifits far outweigh any slight coloration of the sound the box may add or the few khz on the top of the sound spectrum that a well processed 320 looses (and that 75% of people cant hear anyway)

Nothing personal against you either, i'm not condescending your method of Djing which you may think i'm doing, not at all, i'm just stating some basics you learn about signal paths and i'm with ya, 75% people or more can't hear it anyway but it's still there.

Serato is great for a real beatmatching dj going digital, serato over cd's and ableton all day, I should have invented it.
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Post by stanton » Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:32 pm

Gosh I love this thread. I trust you're all listening to your tunes in perfectly acoustically treated underground rooms half an hour after having your ears syringed.
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Post by stanton » Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:36 pm

I've got Torq/Conectiv, it's pretty good for the price, never had one crash until Braiden (I think) stepped up to the plate on Saturday and the tune browser got as drunk I was. I must get round to making a phono pass thru box though as the phono signal ends up having considerably lower gain that the torq signal currently.
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Post by chef » Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:38 pm

stanton wrote:Gosh I love this thread. I trust you're all listening to your tunes in perfectly acoustically treated underground rooms half an hour after having your ears syringed.
Not sure about the rest but I have my ears checked every 4 months, last time I checked my frequency response was perfect, with a kool amount of ear wax build up.

All else you need is an acoustically treated and balanced room with a good set of flat Monitors.(I work in a mastering house) :lol:
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Post by efa » Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:56 pm

Chef wrote:(I work in THE mastering house) :lol:
fixed =]

Will read the rest when I'm bored.
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Post by kidlogic » Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:00 pm

Chef wrote:
Serato User wrote:Is there quality loss when the phono signal is passed through the device opposed to the phono signal going straight into the mixer?
Steve M from RANE wrote: No. One the one hand, one could argue that the added cabling length required could technically degrade any signal (which is always true when using unbalanced audio cable). In other words, it's not a good idea to extend a turntable's output cable length since this lowers the signal quality. Yet the active (powered) internal circuitry in the SL 1 significantly improves the signal-drive capability - meaning it could also be argued that this approach improves the signal quality as cable is added. In reality, it's a wash - there's no quality lost.

Note that when playing back computer files, you can greatly out perform any and all vinyl and any and all turntables ever made by using high quality audio files.
I wouldn't quote this guy like it's the gospel.

His statement in bold is true and what i've been saying, LOL.

The statemet in italic confirms what I've been saying to your argument about it not being the same as a normal wire, i.e ''active (powered) internal circuitry''.

How this active (powered) internal circuitry in the SL 1 significantly improves the signal-drive capability I don't see and will mail him about because that's rubbish talk used to sell gear.

What could the circuitry possibly do to significantly improve the sound(while colouring the sound)????

Amplify the sound...

Equalize the sound, i.e Roll off's, dips, boosts etc at different frequencies...

Limit or compress the sound...

I cant think of any other magical way this box could make it sound better and if it does use any similar techniques then it brings it back round to my original argument that it colours the sound!! LOL
Some may think for better, some for the worse, but the signal path through certainly isn't as clean as a direct output from the deck into the mixer, that's all I was saying and I aint wrong!!

Nothing personal against you at all Chef.

I used to sell audio equipment and have a degree in audio engineering. I value sound quality. I wouldnt have switched if I thought it sounded bad in any way. The coloration from the box is no different than any other piece of Rane gear, which is very minimal. Rane is one of the best DJ equip companies I have used, read up on and worked with (their sales reps are dope).

I LOVE vinyl, I just cant afford $12-14 for one (hopefully two) tunes on one vinyl especially when I can get tunes for $2 or less on other sites and can play unreleased tunes from around the world minutes after downloading them. Those benifits far outweigh any slight coloration of the sound the box may add or the few khz on the top of the sound spectrum that a well processed 320 looses (and that 75% of people cant hear anyway)

Nothing personal against you either, i'm not condescending your method of Djing which you may think i'm doing, not at all, i'm just stating some basics you learn about signal paths and i'm with ya, 75% people or more can't hear it anyway but it's still there.

No offense taken, and I appreciate that.

Im not necessarilly saying his word is gospel on it, but from my experience with them as a company from a saleman's point of view, they were one of the best companies to work with since they dont use double talk and salespeak to sell gear, they let it speak for themselves. I do think that if he meant an improvement on the actual sound though, and not just the signal strength, that it is a bit of a stretch to say.

We're pretty close to agreement actually on most of this, I just dont think its nearly as noticeable as some would have it seem. Its definately not as noticable as a cheap mixer or as bad needles can be with vinyl. Obviously, any additional connection in the signal path is going to create some sort of coloration or noise, since that is the audible manifestation of the electrons moving down the path. Even the cleanest audiophile amp is gonna color the sound a little bit, and Ive stated earlier that the box does color it. I guess I just havent been as sussinct in what I was trying to say as I could have been. The person who originally brought up the point of coloration made it seem like its bad enough to not buy the product, which was what the original poster was asking, whether or not to buy Serato.

The main problem I have with people slaggin on Serato (which I know youre not doing Chef) is that they want to blame all the sound issues of going digital on Serato and the SL1, when more often than not its one of many other possiblilities. If you follow the path from needle to speaker it could be the needle, the tonearm, the cables from the turntable to the SL1, a bad USB port, poor or bad files, the internal gains on Serato being too high (the most common problem), bad/cheap mixer, and out to the soundsystem which could have a whole other host of things coloring the sound.

Your not wrong, Chef, and neither am I. :D
Chef wrote:Serato is great for a real beatmatching dj going digital, serato over cd's and ableton all day, I should have invented it.
When Serato first came out and I figured out how it worked I said the same thing - in principal its so simple!

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Post by kidlogic » Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:02 pm

Chef wrote:
stanton wrote:Gosh I love this thread. I trust you're all listening to your tunes in perfectly acoustically treated underground rooms half an hour after having your ears syringed.
Not sure about the rest but I have my ears checked every 4 months, last time I checked my frequency response was perfect, with a kool amount of ear wax build up.

All else you need is an acoustically treated and balanced room with a good set of flat Monitors.(I work in a mastering house) :lol:
I was gonna say, you must have killer hearing... mine is right there too, last time I had it checked about 6 months ago.

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Post by kidlogic » Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:03 pm

stanton wrote:I've got Torq/Conectiv, it's pretty good for the price, never had one crash until Braiden (I think) stepped up to the plate on Saturday and the tune browser got as drunk I was. I must get round to making a phono pass thru box though as the phono signal ends up having considerably lower gain that the torq signal currently.
Its weird how the Conectiv makes the phono quieter while Serato for the most part makes it quieter... is there a way to adjust the file volume so its quieter?

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Post by taal mala » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:37 pm

vinyl and dubplates all the way.


Serato is a wicked fun toy though..

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Post by dushume » Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:23 pm

Ive Just Joined The Serato Club...Dont mean that i will never buy vinyl again.
I was bought up on vinyl as a listener and later as a DJ. i will always remain buying vinyl, not only of dubstep but various other genres.

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PACEMAKER ANY ONE GOT THERES YET?

Post by r-katen » Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:09 pm

had serato a while now, use it all the time.
buy my vinyl from drop in bath, top shop ,top man adam..

get my vinyl home record it , use wavs in serato for my dubstep.
has anyone noticed the keylok messes up some beelines?

my dubstep collection is only 15gig in wavs 4gig in mp3
, about 500 tunes , keep em all on your laptops drive and make sure the all there overviews have been built, and she is as solid as arock.

luvin the new looping toys in 1.8

but if your playin out, i take my vinyl with me but not all of it , so at the end of the day , you can draw any tune yalike

i got 10,000 tunes in all , no way could i do gigz down the boozer all day with just me dubstep, my town cant handle too much of it yet...

i'm getting a pacemaker this week , at last

check it yet

pacemaker.net

bring on the new toys

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Post by stanton » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:42 am

kidlogic wrote: Its weird how the Conectiv makes the phono quieter while Serato for the most part makes it quieter... is there a way to adjust the file volume so its quieter?
Not as far as I know, apparently it'll be sorted in the next version. The only way I've heard of fixing it currently is to make a pass through circuit, so that the phono signal is on a splitter that you can select the vinyl or mp3 signal via the line/phono selector on your mixer. I've got a load of cabling to make up in the next week so I'll post up the results when I've tired this out.
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Post by <s-h> » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:24 am

got my traktor scratch yesterday. :)
now i goz to wait for my laptop, which is travelling with my girlfriend somewhre in south germany.
:|


which mp3-shop do you think is best for buying dubstep??

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Post by djprojekts » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:19 am

LOL Chef large ups the shout out on rinse fm to the serato box massive on this thread!! Made me laugh bruv!!
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Re: PACEMAKER ANY ONE GOT THERES YET?

Post by two oh one » Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:10 pm

R-KaTen wrote:had serato a while now, use it all the time.
buy my vinyl from drop in bath, top shop ,top man adam..

get my vinyl home record it , use wavs in serato for my dubstep.
has anyone noticed the keylok messes up some beelines?

my dubstep collection is only 15gig in wavs 4gig in mp3
, about 500 tunes , keep em all on your laptops drive and make sure the all there overviews have been built, and she is as solid as arock.

luvin the new looping toys in 1.8

but if your playin out, i take my vinyl with me but not all of it , so at the end of the day , you can draw any tune yalike

i got 10,000 tunes in all , no way could i do gigz down the boozer all day with just me dubstep, my town cant handle too much of it yet...

i'm getting a pacemaker this week , at last

check it yet

pacemaker.net

bring on the new toys
Got the Pacemaker yet?

I got mine on Tuesday.

It's a lot of fun -slowly getting the hang of it. Showing promise, despite crashing every now and again. Hopefully the firmware upgrades will come thick and fast.

Love the packaging, but what's with that SMELL?

:o
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Post by freezachin » Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:31 pm

best $450 i ever spent!

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Post by le_hardcore_chiefus » Tue May 20, 2008 4:40 pm

right payday is looming and i have a fair few quid in the savings...so a ttm 56, laptop and serato should be on the cards very soon

all i`m wandering now is what kind of spec am i looking 4 on a laptop for serato to run at its best....ie the gig ram etc...which is the best brand of laptop...dell etc

ps i will scout through this post too just incase its been mentioned :D

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Post by djprojekts » Tue May 20, 2008 5:00 pm

Le_Hardcore_Chiefus wrote:right payday is looming and i have a fair few quid in the savings...so a ttm 56, laptop and serato should be on the cards very soon

all i`m wandering now is what kind of spec am i looking 4 on a laptop for serato to run at its best....ie the gig ram etc...which is the best brand of laptop...dell etc

ps i will scout through this post too just incase its been mentioned :D
Good choice on Serato, id recommend Sony Vaio's Or Apple Mac's. About 2gb Ram also.

By the way get WINDOWS XP.
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Post by taal mala » Tue May 20, 2008 5:00 pm

you should all save your money from serato and support the scene. buy vinyl and cut dubs.

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