Live Dubstep

Littlefoot · Post by **Littlefoot** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:55 pm

so the only two live set ups I have known are Magnetic Man and Geiom

both completely different, and both I don't fully know how they do it.

I am really interested in performing live around Notts.

I posses a laptop, which will soon have a midi input and output.

in what ways can one produce a seemless flow of music using laptop and hardware ?

any things youve tried.. etc?

(Ps I need to learn to use Live 7.0!)

spencertron · Post by **spencertron** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:28 pm

i play live (electro/IDM...style stuff)...i'm soon to incorporate dubstep into this...i have a short video of me playing live on here www.myspace.com/purephase1 (sound isn't that great on the vid)

it's improv...using reaktor so no gig is exactly same just set/prepared paths of where i am taking things, it's alot of fun and i make alot of noise...dubstep styles/sounds/rythmns will easily be ported into my sets.

others who perform live like myself use ableton to mangle their pre-written tracks/samples...depends what your intentions are...for me i'm not showcasing tracks i've written, i'm messing with sounds/synths/algorithms/beatmanglers/loopchoppers etc. if you want to showcase your tunes and keep a live element to it, maybe ableton will be right for you...

there are a number of options depending on what you want to do.

misk · Post by **misk** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:09 pm

i play live. just did a gig over here in san diego. I used two korg electribes (emx, and esx) and vestax pmc-07 pro mixer. pretty much made a bunch of shit on the electribes, and mixed and matched parts of various loops and scenes with eachother. as well as the occasional live improvised melody here and there for fun. crowd didnt know what to make of it at first, but they got into it as they started to realize what was going on.

bit of a shocker

but a good night.

how does geiom do it?

kwality · Post by **kwality** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:36 am

The easiest way to do it is to just basically dj with ableton - set up some a midi controller to channels and then mix things in and out/jam on top/add fx.

A much tougher but more rewarding way would be to have a bunch of loops/sounds that you can call up and chop and change the way you want. This is great but it can sometimes lead to 'loop-itis' 'cos it's hard work keeping everything changed and flowing.

I'm looking at how to use an mpc alongside ableton - I think that could be damn fun. If you had it synced to ableton and then loaded up a bunch of programs/sounds you could jam away on top and change things in and out.

Some people worry too much about how they'll do it and not WHAT they'll do, so I think as long as the music comes first just go with the flow. I've played a few live sets (minimal/techhouse stuff) and find that just djing, adding fx and twisting things up is more than enough to keep a crowd happy. I'd love to make new stuff from scratch on the spot, but I'd rather keep people dancing than appreciating the insane amounts of hard work I'm doing! The most important thing is though to have fun and look like you're having fun.

boyd · Post by **boyd** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:33 am

Saw Magnetic Man 'live' in Manchester and it consisted of Skream, Benga and the other dude (who is he, magnetic man? or is magnetic man the alias for the three of them? bit confused about that..) standing with an apple laptop each, all watching the screens intently and doing I don't know what. They didn't even seem to be communicating with eachother. There weren't any other pieces of hardware around that I could see, or maybe I just didn't have a good enough view. What ARE they all doing behind those screens

?

kwality · Post by **kwality** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:44 am

Playing solitaire, standard.

Nah, I imagine they'd be screwing around with some stuff, but the mention of no hardware illustrates the biggest issue I think - finding the right controller. If you find one that is intuitive you'll have a great time and it'll be clear that you're playing it. If not it can be pretty static and doesn't let you do much.

Thing is though, it should always be about the music, not what the person is doing. I know it's not, but it SHOULD be like that.

Sharmaji · Post by **Sharmaji** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:51 am

kode 9 is doing live PAs.

otherwise, peep kush arora's stuff. homie is seriously breaking new ground as far as live dub is concerned; midi is re-written and edited, parts taken from tunes and re-pitched/synced/edited (on the FLY) and layered, besides the taken-for-granted fx stabs and such. we're just at a point where this can all be brought to fruition-- the software's got enough features, and the hardware can finally handle it. I expect big things for the future.

best i can say for live dub: same as studio dub. if this is where your gut is taking you then don't hold back, practice like a fiend, find the limits of your equipment (as opposed to thinking you need new gear) and just go for it-- move it forward!!!!!!!!

djshiva · Post by **djshiva** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:22 am

kwality wrote:The easiest way to do it is to just basically dj with ableton - set up some a midi controller to channels and then mix things in and out/jam on top/add fx.

spot on.

kwality wrote:Some people worry too much about how they'll do it and not WHAT they'll do, so I think as long as the music comes first just go with the flow. I've played a few live sets (minimal/techhouse stuff) and find that just djing, adding fx and twisting things up is more than enough to keep a crowd happy. I'd love to make new stuff from scratch on the spot, but I'd rather keep people dancing than appreciating the insane amounts of hard work I'm doing! The most important thing is though to have fun and look like you're having fun.

absolutely deadly spot on.

serox · Post by **serox** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:04 am

I think there have been quite a few live bands that do Dusbtep/Breaks in the UK.

I think Dead Silence are one of them.

Littlefoot · Post by **Littlefoot** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:11 am

kwality wrote:Playing solitaire, standard.

Nah, I imagine they'd be screwing around with some stuff, but the mention of no hardware illustrates the biggest issue I think - finding the right controller. If you find one that is intuitive you'll have a great time and it'll be clear that you're playing it. If not it can be pretty static and doesn't let you do much.

Thing is though, it should always be about the music, not what the person is doing. I know it's not, but it SHOULD be like that.

yes but its nice to know whats available to you to make this music!

chunkie · Post by **chunkie** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:46 am

at the square gig earlier this month Milanese, Ital-Tek and Bass Clef were all live

there were even gaps in Milanese's set (ie complete silence) when it seemed he was loading up the next 'session'

Bass Clef gets his instruments out and strolls about
Milanese and Ital Tek were on laptop/controller duties mangling and scrambling tracks in real time, changing beat patterns, automating effects etc

also, Boxcutter goes live

i-line · Post by **i-line** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:34 pm

Misk wrote: how does geiom do it?

All about the Atari ST

misk · Post by **misk** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:44 pm

i agree with the whole ableton live thing, but theres something to be said for an all-hardware gig. I need another sampler though. The other thing that can be dangerous with an all-original set is the lack of recognizable tracks. The audience will hear a track they like, and when it drops, they go mental. Its an easy payoff for a DJ, but when your pushing live material thats all original, it can be tougher keeping the crowd happy.

Im tempted to incorporate my powerbook, pushing ableton, into my live set as well though - just for those "pop" dubstep track payoffs.

spencertron · Post by **spencertron** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:18 pm

i'm going to be doing a bit of live dubstep tommorow night now. (i decided between yesterdays post and now, i've been doin some prep for it

As above there are going to be stops between tracks whilst i load new ensembles/sessions in reaktor...this is against the original poster's question for 'seamless flow of music' ...but then i supposed you need to define 'live' (something which i don't wanna define myself, thanks)...this won't be a set where i will be DJ'ing my tracks and playing with effects (because i don't really have any tracks)...i'll be making up the track as i go along (within pre-defined territories) in the same way i have done with my breakcore/IDM stuff...it could go horribly wrong, but previous gigs have been fine with other styles

misk · Post by **misk** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:31 pm

spencerTron wrote:i'm going to be doing a bit of live dubstep tommorow night now. (i decided between yesterdays post and now, i've been doin some prep for it

As above there are going to be stops between tracks whilst i load new ensembles/sessions in reaktor...this is against the original poster's question for 'seamless flow of music' ...but then i supposed you need to define 'live' (something which i don't wanna define myself, thanks)...this won't be a set where i will be DJ'ing my tracks and playing with effects (because i don't really have any tracks)...i'll be making up the track as i go along (within pre-defined territories) in the same way i have done with my breakcore/IDM stuff...it could go horribly wrong, but previous gigs have been fine with other styles

yeah thats the way to do it. work with some material to start with, but do all the arranging, as well as effects tweaking, filters, and lfo wobble, etc. live. good luck man! theres nothing quite like it.

spencertron · Post by **spencertron** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:15 pm

Misk wrote:
spencerTron wrote:i'm going to be doing a bit of live dubstep tommorow night now. (i decided between yesterdays post and now, i've been doin some prep for it

As above there are going to be stops between tracks whilst i load new ensembles/sessions in reaktor...this is against the original poster's question for 'seamless flow of music' ...but then i supposed you need to define 'live' (something which i don't wanna define myself, thanks)...this won't be a set where i will be DJ'ing my tracks and playing with effects (because i don't really have any tracks)...i'll be making up the track as i go along (within pre-defined territories) in the same way i have done with my breakcore/IDM stuff...it could go horribly wrong, but previous gigs have been fine with other styles
yeah thats the way to do it. work with some material to start with, but do all the arranging, as well as effects tweaking, filters, and lfo wobble, etc. live. good luck man! theres nothing quite like it.

cheers...like i say it's kinda what i've been doing before but at high speed

some video of my previous shenanigans http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea ... d=28765330

misk · Post by **misk** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:21 pm

nice man! what kinda reaktor ensemble are you using? did you make it yourself, or is it modified?

spencertron · Post by **spencertron** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:51 pm

Misk wrote:nice man! what kinda reaktor ensemble are you using? did you make it yourself, or is it modified?

thats classified info.

not really...

it's a whole heap of things i'm using within reaktor, some reaktor builds are mine some are not, but nothing you would find in the official library, the beat slicer in this vid wasn't mine (BLU), it features in my set abit...i've done a alot of work to it over past couple of months for my needs, i've adopted and bastardized it for my just for my beats...but i'm using other reaktor built drum machines along side it aswell, and mangling their output, aswell as small sequenced synths/loopers/event table based things. hitting about 60%+ cpu usage each time i play (depending on what i am using each time). it can get confusing sometimes.

wizard · Post by **wizard** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:04 am

boyd wrote:Saw Magnetic Man 'live' in Manchester and it consisted of Skream, Benga and the other dude (who is he, magnetic man? or is magnetic man the alias for the three of them? bit confused about that..) standing with an apple laptop each, all watching the screens intently and doing I don't know what. They didn't even seem to be communicating with eachother. There weren't any other pieces of hardware around that I could see, or maybe I just didn't have a good enough view. What ARE they all doing behind those screens ?

i was right at the front they were communicating but i have no idea what they were doing, benga was using a vocoder though

thesis · Post by **thesis** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:53 am

I'm doing 'live' dubstep. Heres my methods...

When I first attempted this, I was breaking up my tunes into 8 channels of audio, loading into Live and controlling with a Zero SL, adding FX etc. Found that method too complicated (8 streams of audio to look after!), and also very hard to mix into the next tune - how do you mix 8 channels of one tune, to 8 channels of something else? More trouble than its worth (punters don't know the difference), and more things to go wrong. It was also a bitch to prepare the WAV files, sometimes more work than the production of the tune itself!

Now I'm splitting my tunes into 3 channels: beats/percussion/fx (depending on the tune). In Live I'm running 4 channels of audio. Channels 1 and 2 are the 'decks' containing the beats. I play 1 and 2 like a normal DJ set, then layer the other stuff on top. Each channel has an EQ, and a delay/reverb on the sends. All controls are mapped to Zero SL, so I don't have to touch the laptop once during a set.

I usually extend the layered elements, so you have parts from one track mixed in with another. For most tracks I also add extra stuff which is not in the original, such as vocal samples, extra percussion. So when you hear me play live, it sounds different from the original versions. I don't see the point in playing your tunes in Ableton just as a straight DJ set... might as well just play a mix CD. Adding this extra stuff also keeps me busy when I'm not mixing - ie. the crowd can see I'm actually doing something and not just staring at the screen - which I think should be avoided at all costs.

In the future I'm looking at adding some MIDI percussion to the mix... maybe playing a Roland Handsonic or something.

Live Dubstep

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