Dubplates

[2000f]

Yeah, I reckon it´s a myth of sorts too. I´ve been pro engineering since 1999 (and went to SAE) and very interested in this topic, and I reckon Dubstep DJ´s might use acetates due to the following:

1) It seems even more exclusive than a CD-R.

2) If you are not used to CD-R´s, acetates are as easy to use as vinyl.

3) You usually pay for mastering of the tune you are to cut to acetate, and you don´t do that with the regular CD-R you burn at home.

4) It´s a DJ tradition in the UK and in Jamaica.


The third point is part of the acetate myth. The acetates played at the dances are generally mastered and this is not the case with CD-R´s.


A very good pressed vinyl might to some degree sound better to some peeps, to others it might not. But there is some general differences that need to be clarified.
CD has (in theory) a greater dynamic range and to some (depends on the vinyl cutting and playbank system) degree also have a better frequency range (eventhough it´s limited to 22.05 kHz due to the Nyquist frequency. Vinyl is limited sub frequency-wise, as it´s not possible to cut/press the deepest frequencies and furthermore the general playback stylys starts to roll-off at 20kHz). Acetates are different to "proper" vinyl, and it is definately my experience that they sound "inferior" (from the very start, and this progresses to even worse after 20 or more plays) to vinyl. But this doesn´t mean that acteates sound worse, but they do sound different. And some might prefer this sound compared to CD´s. But it´s definately not 90% of the clubs and sound system that will even qualify as perfect sounding venues with perfect systems. Why play a virgin vinyl on a dodgy sound in a room with no acoustic treatment? The crowd will definately not be able to tell the difference, that´s for sure.

I tend to play 100% CD-R based DJ sets these days, and I don´t really miss vinyl nor acetates as long as I can DJ on two Pioneer CDJ-1000´s.


EDIT: Just thought about the interesting fact that no one producing Dubstep I know of use analogue recording techniques and with this in mind their masters are in general also digital 16 or 24 bit /44.1 kHz. So eventhough a very fine vinyl mastering and playback system might be able to reproduce the highest frequencies, these aren´t even present in the original master. So the reason people prefer vinyl must bue to the overall different sound of the vinyl (incl. pops, hiss, clicks and the "warmth"). What you reckon?

[sinewave]

by all means you can make cd's sound warm if you take into account the mastering processes involved. but cd is of a digital format, it is compressed audio at its best, actually it's at 16bit and a max limit of approximately 96db dynamic range. vinyl can go over 100db (at higher frequencies) and you can notice the difference if working with audio on a daily basis.

[pangaea]

EDIT: Just thought about the interesting fact that no one producing Dubstep I know of use analogue recording techniques and with this in mind their masters are in general also digital 16 or 24 bit /44.1 kHz. So eventhough a very fine vinyl mastering and playback system might be able to reproduce the highest frequencies, these aren´t even present in the original master. So the reason people prefer vinyl must bue to the overall different sound of the vinyl (incl. pops, hiss, clicks and the "warmth"). What you reckon?

This is probably true. I find that people who talk about the warmer and deeper sound of vinyl are referring to music produced in the past on analogue equipment, and comparing it to the CDs made from those masters. If these frequencies aren't even produced in digitally-made music, it's not going to make any difference.

I love vinyl though, and dubplates are cool

[jtransition]

You guys are killing me

[threnody]

Dubstudio seem very good. I'm getting my first plates cut with Henry dubstudio this week.

[wil blaze]

cheaper to do one offs than to set up to press 500 pieces of vinyl. By a factor of 10-20 X at least.

nah nah, im talking about dubplates. why would someone press 1 acetate dubplate as oppose to 1 of these illusive vinyl dubplates which have been mentioned on the thread?
cheers

cheaper/more readily available (i think???? correcct me if i'm wrong)

or if you don't care if it lasts too long (testing a tune for example)

peace

[wil blaze]

EDIT: Just thought about the interesting fact that no one producing Dubstep I know of use analogue recording techniques and with this in mind their masters are in general also digital 16 or 24 bit /44.1 kHz. So eventhough a very fine vinyl mastering and playback system might be able to reproduce the highest frequencies, these aren´t even present in the original master. So the reason people prefer vinyl must bue to the overall different sound of the vinyl (incl. pops, hiss, clicks and the "warmth"). What you reckon?

Just to let you know i produce dubstep using geinuine old school analogue synths mixed through an analogue desk... (not that anyone should know that)

having said that i mix to digital at the end of it but at 96kHz so there is much more high end when it gets cut to dubplate...

as for why not use cds?

cos CDJs blow.... i have one and a Denon CD deck that is meant to be they tits and they both suck for mixing...
you can use them but it takes so much funa nd spirit out of it and it's fiddily....

plus who doesn't just love vinyl?

[random trio]

Transition cut everlasting dubs? Anyone knows?

No they dont mate, but as some 1 mentioned, all us guys cut our stuff there. They've been cutting our lots beats for yrs..no 1 choice for the dub step famo,they got it sounding down to a T.

[thinking]

3) You usually pay for mastering of the tune you are to cut to acetate, and you don´t do that with the regular CD-R you burn at home.

I think this is a major point, particularly for those who cut at Transition; as Cyrus says above Transition have cut dubs for all the 'big names' in S London for a long time, and have the mastering technique pretty much perfected for dubstep. It's gonna sound a lot better than someone mixing their tune down at home on their PC before they burn a CD.

Don't underestimate the physical element as well - playing vinyl/dubplates on decks is just a very nice way to mix tunes together, provided you're prepared to pay the money to cut them.

That's another thing. People who cut dubs have shown their commitment to/belief in a tune by paying £25 to cut it, perhaps a stronger endorsement than burning a CD?

Does this help to shape your 'sound' as a DJ by partly limiting yourself to playing music that you've cut (and released vinyl)? What if you want to play CDs but can't afford a CDJ1000 and have to have a crappy one at home?



personally I cut dubplates with www.dubstudio.co.uk now and I think they're excellent, they sound good and are decent value for money. I played off CDRs happily for quite a while, but still not enough clubs have CDJ1000/800s, nor do I have one at home, and I don't think any other CDJs are 100% up to the job yet.

[threnody]

personally I cut dubplates with www.dubstudio.co.uk now and I think they're excellent, they sound good and are decent value for money. I.

Vinyl dubplates not acetate! Sound bright and loud. Well impressed.

[jtransition]

I have listened to the vinyl dubplates and Scrutinized the machines that cut them and to be honest they are not there yet in terms of the ability to cut a consitantley good sound.At Transition we are continually searching for ways to raise the bar in terms of what can be cut and what tools we use to cut but i feel those everlasting dubs are a step backwards.
Jason

[dubfidubs]

The everlasting wanna be dubplates dont sound nearly as good as ol' fashion Dubplates. Those newer units dont have feedback on the cutterhead so the hi frequency sounds like doo doo. they might not last as long but def... sound better. plus how can you compare an add on piece of metal to a 1200 unit to a massive record lathe....no feedback= no hi end. those were made because you cant find an old neumann or scully for the price of a cheapy vinyl cutter which most who want to start a biz can afford. All the talk on these everlasting plates is just creating hype for the terrible sounding medium. Thats like Apple selling mp3's instead of full wav's. HYPE! until you try both you'll never know

[crazeebo]

I have listened to the vinyl dubplates and Scrutinized the machines that cut them and to be honest they are not there yet in terms of the ability to cut a consitantley good sound.At Transition we are continually searching for ways to raise the bar in terms of what can be cut and what tools we use to cut but i feel those everlasting dubs are a step backwards.
Jason

which machine have you been looking at?
consistensy is an issue with my vinylrecorder,true. but i dont intend to make masters for the pressing plants. another thing my machine has cost a fraction of an acetate cutter and so are blanks! (in my books around 1 to 10)

i have cut maybe 3000 vinylplates so far and can confirm like some happy clients on this forum that it CAN SOUND LOUD/CRISP/CLEAN like acetate. i have a dedicated way of mastering/leveling before the cut...and i can make it sound like that.


dont kill my business

[crazeebo]

The everlasting wanna be dubplates dont sound nearly as good as ol' fashion Dubplates. Those newer units dont have feedback on the cutterhead so the hi frequency sounds like doo doo. they might not last as long but def... sound better. plus how can you compare an add on piece of metal to a 1200 unit to a massive record lathe....no feedback= no hi end. those were made because you cant find an old neumann or scully for the price of a cheapy vinyl cutter which most who want to start a biz can afford. All the talk on these everlasting plates is just creating hype for the terrible sounding medium. Thats like Apple selling mp3's instead of full wav's. HYPE! until you try both you'll never know

bullshit!! there is a feedbackunit for the vinylrecorder....but you can cut without AND make it sound tight!!

do you really think i'd offered to cut plates and they'd have no HI end?? i would have no clients mon...


apple actually sells mp3s.....or?

[crazeebo]

one last thing:


the vinylrecorder cuts with a diamond. i can cut acetate or reference lites as well, if you insist on haveing true dubplates!


so far none of my clients wants acetate, due to prices....hehehe



anyway its two different boots and both work out, see!





next time i'm in london i'd like to check out the carvery (vinyl) and transition (acetate) and meet the ppl behind the cutters....we could actually set up a comparison cut.

if someone of these companies are interested hit me up!



grouphug