DEATH to AMERICA

[spicerack]

The real consequences when America is at war

We may not want to admit it, but the war in Iraq is now primarily about murder...

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/20 ... ollateral/

...discuss ?

[aleks zen]

lol! why do you want to kill America sonny jim?

[relaks]

We may not want to admit it, but a provocative thread title with a political link inside is what we call 'predictable'.

discuss?

[yakis]

@ thread title.

[spicerack]

Everytime an atrocity happens because of the occupation of Iraq. America dies a little more. You all should be ashamed of yourselves.

[yakis]

The content of that article is powerful, disturbing, and I think it should be shared.

No need to be a dick about it, though...

[spicerack]

Sorry. I just dont understand how the American public just stood or stands by and lets that happen in their name. I also don't understand how American soldiers stood or stands by and lets that happen in their name.

[djshiva]

Everytime an atrocity happens because of the occupation of Iraq. America dies a little more. You all should be ashamed of yourselves.

Yanno, it's shit like this that keeps causing more and more bullshit the world over.

I, for one, am not proud of the actions taken by the GOVERNMENT of the country I live in, for the benefit of the RICH, CORPORATE ASSHOLES who have their fingers in the pie.

BUT...when I start to get pissed is when people act like every human who lives in the country is worthless because of those actions. A deep look into the corruption at the highest levels of government, the corporate-owned media that gave up their position as the watchdog, and an understanding of how deep class divisions feed the capitalist system that keeps everyone but the richest few in an endless cycle of work and ignorance, SHOULD be enough for any intelligent being to understand that simplistic rhetoric like this is so sophomoric as to be utterly worthless when it comes to any real discourse on how to make things right and to move forward to overcome the hold that those in power have over the average American, and through that, over the rest of the world.

At the core of my frustration with this thread is that judging all Americans by the actions of their government, is as ridiculous as some fundamentalist wackjob blaming all Muslims for the actions of the terrorists of 9/11. It's simplistic, inflammatory rhetoric that really ends up being nothing more than vacuous whining.

At base, I absolutely agree that what is going on in Iraq is murder, and even worse, murder for profit. And I, like many Americans, have done my best to stop this war. But in all honesty, what the fuck do you want from us? We protest, we vote, we organize. Many people have done their best to provide support for Iraqis caught in the crossfire, whether that is working with NGOs in-country to make the situation better however they can, or by giving to those organizations, if that's all they can do. There are people all over this country who fought against the war before it began, and there are even more who are pissed off, frustrated and wanting it all to end. But we are up against a government who has solidified their power in so many insidious ways, they are even now eroding the very rights they claim to protect in pursuing these wars. There is power in numbers, but it's not juvenile name-calling that usually gets the masses riled up enough to stop a war. It's education, strategy and action.

I will NEVER make excuses for the actions of this government, EVER. But I am FUCKING tired of basically being called a murderer for living in this country, when I am under the thumb of my own fucking government every goddamn day. What the fuck do you want? And where are YOUR solutions?

Until you can come with some more intelligent discourse that reaches further than the more heated version of "YOU GUYS SUCK", I don't see much reason to listen to what you have to say. I used inflammatory tactics like yours when I was 18 years old. Since I grew up a bit, I realized that generally what that does is cause people to tune you out. If you want people to listen, you are gonna have to try harder to bring some intelligence to the table, instead of jumping on your high horse to try and call someone out.

By the way, where are you from?

Edited to add: By the way, there are people in this country who are fighting just to have the basic rights of human beings as well, or even fighting just to survive every day. I think people need to fucking wake up and realize that we are not all over-privileged assholes licking the boots of our corporate masters. We are people, just like everyone else, trying to live. We have our flaws and our amazing moments too. But we are people, just like you. And if you have never undertaken the daunting task of basically wrestling control over a MASSIVE government out of the hands of the rich and powerful to give it back to the people, then maybe you should take a few moments to REALLY think about what that means, and JUST how fucking difficult it really is, before sitting at your fucking computer preaching DEATH to America.

[bellybelle]

Everytime an atrocity happens because of the occupation of Iraq. America dies a little more. You all should be ashamed of yourselves.

Yanno, it's shit like this that keeps causing more and more bullshit the world over.

I, for one, am not proud of the actions taken by the GOVERNMENT of the country I live in, for the benefit of the RICH, CORPORATE ASSHOLES who have their fingers in the pie.

BUT...when I start to get pissed is when people act like every human who lives in the country is worthless because of those actions. A deep look into the corruption at the highest levels of government, the corporate-owned media that gave up their position as the watchdog, and an understanding of how deep class divisions feed the capitalist system that keeps everyone but the richest few in an endless cycle of work and ignorance, SHOULD be enough for any intelligent being to understand that simplistic rhetoric like this is so sophomoric as to be utterly worthless when it comes to any real discourse on how to make things right and to move forward to overcome the hold that those in power have over the average American, and through that, over the rest of the world.

At the core of my frustration with this thread is that judging all Americans by the actions of their government, is as ridiculous as some fundamentalist wackjob blaming all Muslims for the actions of the terrorists of 9/11. It's simplistic, inflammatory rhetoric that really ends up being nothing more than vacuous whining.

At base, I absolutely agree that what is going on in Iraq is murder, and even worse, murder for profit. And I, like many Americans, have done my best to stop this war. But in all honesty, what the fuck do you want from us? We protest, we vote, we organize. Many people have done their best to provide support for Iraqis caught in the crossfire, whether that is working with NGOs in-country to make the situation better however they can, or by giving to those organizations, if that's all they can do. There are people all over this country who fought against the war before it began, and there are even more who are pissed off, frustrated and wanting it all to end. But we are up against a government who has solidified their power in so many insidious ways, they are even now eroding the very rights they claim to protect in pursuing these wars. There is power in numbers, but it's not juvenile name-calling that usually gets the masses riled up enough to stop a war. It's education, strategy and action.

I will NEVER make excuses for the actions of this government, EVER. But I am FUCKING tired of basically being called a murderer for living in this country, when I am under the thumb of my own fucking government every goddamn day. What the fuck do you want? And where are YOUR solutions?

Until you can come with some more intelligent discourse that reaches further than the more heated version of "YOU GUYS SUCK", I don't see much reason to listen to what you have to say. I used inflammatory tactics like yours when I was 18 years old. Since I grew up a bit, I realized that generally what that does is cause people to tune you out. If you want people to listen, you are gonna have to try harder to bring some intelligence to the table, instead of jumping on your high horse to try and call someone out.

By the way, where are you from?

Edited to add: By the way, there are people in this country who are fighting just to have the basic rights of human beings as well, or even fighting just to survive every day. I think people need to fucking wake up and realize that we are not all over-privileged assholes licking the boots of our corporate masters. We are people, just like everyone else, trying to live. We have our flaws and our amazing moments too. But we are people, just like you. And if you have never undertaken the daunting task of basically wrestling control over a MASSIVE government out of the hands of the rich and powerful to give it back to the people, then maybe you should take a few moments to REALLY think about what that means, and JUST how fucking difficult it really is, before sitting at your fucking computer preaching DEATH to America.

!!!!! true. that.

[dubluke]

Sorry. I just dont understand how the American public just stood or stands by and lets that happen in their name. I also don't understand how American soldiers stood or stands by and lets that happen in their name.

mate of course there were efforts made to protest the war etc. but ultimately you can take plenty of action against it, but if the government aren't listening to the people/don't care what the people have to say then nothing will happen.

at the same time as this, there was also a core body of support (who obviously those in power WILL listen to as they are saying the right things by supporting their actions) in the american public and media

[aleks zen]

lol FUCK the government they can kiss my skinny white arse

edit: nah being serious now, its not really about looking at what they do sometimes, u got to work on ur self and be the change u want to see in the world

[metalboxproducts]

It's sooooooooo 7 years ago to hate on America.

[aleks zen]

It's sooooooooo 7 years ago to hate on America.

lol yeh u know, keep it moving

[metalboxproducts]

On a serious note, i was having a discussion with some plonka about America a while back and he was trying to tell me that ALL Americans were right wing nut jobs. I had to walk away from him. He was very dull.

[spicerack]

It's sooooooooo 7 years ago to hate on America.

It's so now more than ever. Now that the media circus has turned it's gaze towards the election.

But in all honesty, what the fuck do you want from us? We protest, we vote, we organize. What the fuck do you want? And where are YOUR solutions?

I want protest songs. I want people with balls doing subversive acts against the government. I want blanket press coverage of riots in the street, demonstrations on campus, sit ins at government buildings. I want court martials for crimes of war. I want bush impeached. I want revolution. Is that really too much to ask for ?

[aleks zen]

On a serious note, i was having a discussion with some plonka about America a while back and he was trying to tell me that ALL Americans were right wing nut jobs. I had to walk away from him. He was very dull.

brov, everyones a right wing nut job

edit: thats ZEN style, u dont know my level honestly

[metalboxproducts]

Oh yeah, out to Saphic. I feel for you. It must be so fucking frustrating when you are confronted with this small minded shit all the time. I mean i'm bloody tired of this "lets hate on America and everything about it" script that seems to come out of people's mouths like some fucking mantra. God it's so not very clever.

[metalboxproducts]

On a serious note, i was having a discussion with some plonka about America a while back and he was trying to tell me that ALL Americans were right wing nut jobs. I had to walk away from him. He was very dull.

brov, everyones a right wing nut job

edit: thats ZEN style, u dont know my level honestly

haha I think i do know what you mean actually.

[aleks zen]

Oh yeah, out to Saphic. I feel for you. It must be so fucking frustrating when you are confronted with this small minded shit all the time. I mean i'm bloody tired of this "lets hate on America and everything about it" script that seems to come out of people's mouths like some fucking mantra. God it's so not very clever.

brov everyones an idiot, just look at it that way if u want to get ahead in life, i know its not a very nice thing to say but it IS true

[spicerack]

No it's not clever, it's dumbed down for the zombie masses. If you want clever you could maybe explain why you think it's small minded and tiring.