Chord Progressions.

[Hide_One]

My girlfriend, who likes dubstep but aint massively into it says that a lot of tunes are quite predictable, this got me thinking that surely almost every song written would be predictable because of natural chord progressions, which in turn inspired me to learn some different scales and chords to try writing with. Anyone else here write using theory or just bash chords out til it sounds right? Anyone here found some tried and tested progressions? Ive started sampling strings and using them with classical progressions and IMO it sounds dope.

[r]

i dont know how you say it in english but in theory you got 7 chord 'steps'

1th step ,2nd, 3th etc. till the 7th.

Cmaj, Dmin,Emin,Fmaj,Gdom,Amin, Bminmaj(not sure bout the last one)

if you're in C you can use all these chords and itll fit Chords are build up of interfalls. All kinds of chords gets a sort off function because you're in a certain tuning. the most things out here have the most predictable progression that will fit in the blues progression : 1 step, 4 step, 5 step, 1 step

in chords :

cmaj, fmaj, gdom, cmaj

[simbi]

I usually just bash out chords / riffs / on my guitar, then figure out what damn key i'm in and where the notes are on my midi. I usually have no idea where my music stands in terms of theory, if it would be considered technical or simple, if i'm useing some crazy scale or a widely used one. I try to just trust my ears that I'm not making something predictable. However, there are rules to abide, and if you break them you can usually tell, because it sounds like shit.

[elbe]

there are no rules to chord progrssion or melody progression. There is only conditioning. For some reason in the west we have boxed up and catagorised everything, there are a plethora of note we don't even touch let alone have a scale for.

Play what you feel works, even if this is against conventional theory.

[simbi]

Define ' conditioning ' please.

You are right, you can do whatever you want, if you want to disregard musical theory and have your tunes sound like ass, be my guest.

The reason a plethora of notes and chords arn't played together is because most people agree that it sounds like shit if you skip keys randomly and play in and out of scales without any cohesion, it's what most people call hitting a 'bad note'.

People can do whatever they want, but if someone is playing against conventional theory, i don't think anyone would be suprised that they are doing so, the overwhelming shittiness of there song would be proof.

If you feel it works, then wether you know it or not, you are most likely playing within the rules of conventional theory.

[two oh one]

Dubstep has chord progressions?



I'm finding a lot of it unpredictable as fuck due to chromaticness.

[FSTZ1]

Dubstep has chord progressions?



I'm finding a lot of it unpredictable as fuck due to chromaticness.

THRSSLY??

[elbe]

Define ' conditioning ' please.

You are right, you can do whatever you want, if you want to disregard musical theory and have your tunes sound like ass, be my guest.

The reason a plethora of notes and chords arn't played together is because most people agree that it sounds like shit if you skip keys randomly and play in and out of scales without any cohesion, it's what most people call hitting a 'bad note'.

People can do whatever they want, but if someone is playing against conventional theory, i don't think anyone would be suprised that they are doing so, the overwhelming shittiness of there song would be proof.

If you feel it works, then wether you know it or not, you are most likely playing within the rules of conventional theory.

What you need to do is consider what you define music as, there are a lot of sounds in the world that are considered music but not every-one agrees. Indian scales are different from our for example (a particularly obvious one) and where once such music would have been considered shit and hitting bad notes it is now widley used through modern commercial genres

When I say conditioning I mean just that. Most of use grow up listening to a very limited scope of music. Our ear settles on and memorises patterns these become familiar and pleasing to the ear.

I suppose it depends on who you aiming your music at and what reason you are making music for.

[spanmalaise]

If you're coming from an intuitive approach (i.e. just doing what sounds good) then I wouldn't try to force it on the music theory. I'm classically trained but I don't analyse the tunes I write, even the key they're in or anything, I just do what sounds good.

If you wanna make your sound more original, just listen to a wider range of music than you are doing...if you only listen to dubstep for example (i'm not saying you do) then your chords will sound like classic dubstep chords. If you listen to contemporary jazz that's gonna bleed through.

[simbi]

True, there is a universe of sounds and patterns that can be used. And what one deems to be 'music' should only be determined by each individual.

However, I am just following what the human race has deemed pleasurable and non-pleasurable.

Some people may think dog shit smells good, but I bet the majority of humans on this planet would disagree.

Our ears settle on patterns that sound pleasurable first off, these then eventually turn into scales, chord progressions, and so on, because people like to box things up and make it academic. This should not be viewed negatively.


I agree with you that there are technically no rules when creating anything. Earth did not come with a rule book, unless you believe otherwiset. However if you actually want people to like your music then you will follow rules that the human ear has deemed pleasurable. I know you have heard someone play an instrument without knowing what they are doing, and most people would agree that is sounds like shit. I don't think shit sounds good, so I will follow pleasurable sound patterns that just so happen to be within the confines of conventional theory.

[centrestep]

Chrod Progressions are the result of the Multidimensional Centre coming together as one. Bet you didnt know that?! True that is!

[simbi]

I thought multidimensional centres were the result of quarks and leptons birthing a dual resonance vector through nambu-goto fermion actions?

[centrestep]

Your wrong. God you people no nothing

[simbi]

we 'know' how to spell better than you.

[spanmalaise]

Simbi you're a horrific western-centric listener, it took until 1700s before our "even tempered scale" was even decided on, and then it was only in europe (and by extension, the US) - if you listen to a lot of work by LaMonte Young (post war minimalist composer) you'll here a "just intonation" scale where the tuninigs are fundamentally different, it has a very different feel but still totally acceptable as music - this is the scale which indian classical music is based on.
Since the Ancient Greeks, the octave has been subdivided into ten (by them), five (that's a pentatonic), and, in balinese gamelan, dozens of different scales and tunings depending on the mood and feel of the music. Even microtonal tunings are pretty popular these days in contemporary music (don't give me some crap about it not sounding nice; there are people who make it, and people who like it)
Beyond the mathematical proportions of our hearing, e.g. doubling the frequency produces an octave, the rest is fair game. Our music should be able to reflect that, not ignorantly pretend it's not "pleasurable" to the entirety of the human race.

[simbi]

I'm not sure what we are discussing anymore, can we define that.

[jblake]

I would say that the "predictability" in dubstep/metal/hardcore metal/name your "dark" genre, is the tendency for most tunes to involve, at some point, a semitone hook (the main culprit of such cliche's).
For example, say you're in C, the bassline, lead, strings, guitar, piano, whatever, could go: C, C sharp, C sharp, C.... rinse and repeat.
This makes things sound dark, without necessarily being "minor", although suggesting it. So basically this function has become so cliché that certain tunes might make you think you know the bassline even when they "don't". Many different tunes are just versions of the semitone riff done in different ways, different drums, different rythms, different sounds, whatever, it boils down to the same thing. Now, when you're in a club and you hear that kinda stuff its easy to just go "yeahhhhhhhhh tunnnneeee", and believe me I do and have done. It just depends whether you're the sort of person who believes that real musicality in dubstep doesnt mean things can't sound good or accessible, or whether you think they are mutually exclusive. The problem might arise where things get too clever for their own good and nobody is going to want to put on your record. I tend to try not to worry too much about stuff like this because those "Red Eye" type semitone basslines are one of the reasons I got into dubstep.
Considering the Bach's and the Beethoven's, the Debussy's and the Tatum's have gone to places people might never go quite as well, I sometimes just think, fuck it, write something that sounds good, whatever it is.
Still, I do find it refreshing when an artist includes a chord or progression I havent heard before in this context.

Probably loads of contradictions there, but hey, it's late and I'm not totally sure what I think.

[elbe]

True, there is a universe of sounds and patterns that can be used. And what one deems to be 'music' should only be determined by each individual.

However, I am just following what the human race has deemed pleasurable and non-pleasurable.

I agree with you that there are technically no rules when creating anything. Earth did not come with a rule book, unless you believe otherwiset. However if you actually want people to like your music then you will follow rules that the human ear has deemed pleasurable.

What I am saying is that there is not set in stone beauty to sound. You can't talk about what sounds good to the human ear as different cultures, fuck, even different people within the same culture, will have different and varied ideas of what constitutes music.

This is why I say our ears have been conditioned to certain notes played in certain sequences, but these notes and sequences are by no means Universal.

I feel to many people put too much emphasis on what notes you can and cannot use, music is like any other art form, it is alive, it evolves changes and develops. It is not static and it is not bound by rules such a chord progressions and scales. Whilst learning such progressions can benefit your playing (at least to a western ear) it can also limit you creativity.

The thing that matters is that your music conveys what you want it to. If that involves hitting what is conventionally considered as a 'bad note' then so be it.

It is about expression, about feeling and about communicating this feeling to others.

[John Locke]

simbi, cant really b bothered explaining what "conditioning" means (and anyway i didnt write it), but trust me, u r a pure by-product of it.

u talk about "humanity" when what u actually mean is the dominant culture in the part of the world u grew up in. not the same thing, tho a very, very common mistake - as the world's current political/economic situation clearly demonstrates.

i got a korean mate who is a professor of traditional korean music, he laughs at the simplicity of western music. there r time signatures in korean music i cant even get my head round when he demonstrates them. these would no doubt sound like shit 2 u. but this does not MAKE them shit. this just means u dont get it. you, and the culture you come from, are not the centre of the universe or in anyway more "right" than anyone else.

you (like all of us) are "conditioned"

[elbe]

^^^
trust simbi, go out and explore you might find your ideas around music's construction expand and change.