getting *that* sound

lilt · Post by **lilt** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:46 pm

so ive been making stuff (dubstep included) for years now
and ive made some pretty damn good tracks, good enough that people who dont like the 'sort' of music im making sit up and go 'whoa, this is really great'

but i can never get *that* sound, the sort of lushness that you can feel in anything from benga to vexd to coki

all my tracks feel like they have been made by some twat on his laptop...

i layer shit like theres no tomorrow. i just keep layering till my laptop fucks out, then i render down and layer some more
but it never feels 'lush'

is this to do with mastering? anybody?

dougd · Post by **dougd** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:52 am

A good first step would be to define, as precisely as possible, what "lushness" means to you.

I'm assuming it's some combination of subjective "warmth", careful use of reverb, and careful use of EQ... plus running the track through some high-end mastering gear, perhaps... but until you explain further I can't say since I'm not a mind-reader.

ali jamieson · Post by **ali jamieson** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:49 am

what do you monitor with? there's no massive secrets to benga's production, fairly standard... jus fruity loops and logic 6, dif between us and him is he gets to play his tunes out ona regular and see what works ona decent system... i jus got my tapcos

zillion · Post by **zillion** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:57 pm

ali jamieson wrote:what do you monitor with? there's no massive secrets to benga's production, fairly standard... jus fruity loops and logic 6, dif between us and him is he gets to play his tunes out ona regular and see what works ona decent system... i jus got my tapcos

Well surely he has some secrets as his tunes are being played and ours aint. his tunes are probably a lot more complicated than you think. The programme a producer use i would have thought has no relavence on the standard of production is it not more about sound you create in the programmes. Benga must be doing something right.

ali jamieson · Post by **ali jamieson** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:19 pm

nah course but my point was ... it's not as if he has some secret handshake secrets passed down generation to generation by word of mouth... he's future music video is on youtube, and it's all relatively standard stuff [not at *all* shitting on his production style... he's a sicko and it's 1000 times better than mine!]

i mean if we were having this discussion about aphex twin it'd be a dif matter, i know he builds alot of his own synths, writes his own programs and does all sortsa weird stuff generally unobtainable to the semi-pro bed room producer.

i think he [benga] prob does have some secrets, but a goodtune is a good tune, and there's no 'sound' to be striving for, ifyou can do what in your head and that makes people dance you've got 'that sound' i guess...
jus my 2 cents

xxxy · Post by **xxxy** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:39 pm

my tips (you can listen to my tunes on myspace and decide whether or not I have that sound)

Eq - make sure you have a really good eq - I like to use 2 - one musical and one surgical and learn how and when to use it eq and is, IMO, the most important tool in an electronic musician's box

Compression - learn as much about compression as possible then you can mould stuff together so it sits properly

Reverb - there was some bullshit topic on here - ignore it - get yourself a really good reverb (Ambience is available for free as a non restricted demo and you can donate to get rid of the nag screen http://magnus.smartelectronix.com/#Ambience) and use this sparingly on different elements of your tune to make all of them sit in the same virtual space

Panning - use panning to help elements sit together in the mix - but if your making the tune for a club soundsystem make sure it sounds ok in mono as you don't want to drop your latest dancefloor smasher to find it sounds completely different to what it did at home

A/B - take a released tune that you love and listen to it next to your tune maybe drop it in on an audio track and see what's there that's not in your track and then try and fill out your mix - or stick it on your mp3 player in playlist with other tunes that are similar and put it on shuffle while your out having it jump on when your not expecting can help you judge it better

other tips - turn your screen off when listening through on your software you might pick up on bits you miss whilst looking at the screen

pm me if you need any more tips

legend4ry · Post by **legend4ry** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:59 pm

xx xy wrote:my tips (you can listen to my tunes on myspace and decide whether or not I have that sound)

Eq - make sure you have a really good eq - I like to use 2 - one musical and one surgical and learn how and when to use it eq and is, IMO, the most important tool in an electronic musician's box

Compression - learn as much about compression as possible then you can mould stuff together so it sits properly

Reverb - there was some bullshit topic on here - ignore it - get yourself a really good reverb (Ambience is available for free as a non restricted demo and you can donate to get rid of the nag screen http://magnus.smartelectronix.com/#Ambience) and use this sparingly on different elements of your tune to make all of them sit in the same virtual space

Panning - use panning to help elements sit together in the mix - but if your making the tune for a club soundsystem make sure it sounds ok in mono as you don't want to drop your latest dancefloor smasher to find it sounds completely different to what it did at home

A/B - take a released tune that you love and listen to it next to your tune maybe drop it in on an audio track and see what's there that's not in your track and then try and fill out your mix - or stick it on your mp3 player in playlist with other tunes that are similar and put it on shuffle while your out having it jump on when your not expecting can help you judge it better

other tips - turn your screen off when listening through on your software you might pick up on bits you miss whilst looking at the screen

pm me if you need any more tips

Good tips and Ambience is a amazing free reverb VST I use it as my "main" reverb vst.

Also what I have found is from my past tune, to my tunes now they sound a lot more spacey, stuff sits right and that, Like xx xy said, I put a few of my tunes scattered in a playlist and my new tune came on and I was vibesing out to it and I didn't realise till I checked whose tune it was, I was like.. "haha, ego boost!".

The more I try and get shit sounded like the big tunes the further I get from it, mix down in your own way, its like finding your style of making tunes, just as much even. If you listen to loads of artists tunes, they all mix down and get mastered differently, thats another reason you can tell its a Mala track or a Skream track. As long as it isn't clipping like shit and it doesn't sound like its been put through a thousand different EQs and its all muddy and horrible i'm sure if dropped on a phat system it'll sound fresh!

My two cents anyways

- Ledge.

drifterman_ · Post by **drifterman_** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:01 pm

just do u

if ur trying to make things sound "lush" ur going at it the wrong way

try to make ur sound, as much ur own as possible. the general "feel" will come naturally as ur track comes 2gether.

medi · Post by **medi** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:42 pm

There tunes sound like that because they have been mastered.

corpsey · Post by **corpsey** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:33 pm

I think you just have to spend a lot of time eqing/mastering/layering everything to make it sound great. Monitors obviously help in this respect, which is why I need to buy some ASAP

alan_ · Post by **alan_** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:40 pm

mastering: this has already been brought up. professional mastering will make the music sound much more full and rich.

you might want to consider not layering so much. it will end up making things sound washed-out and indeterminate rather than lush. there's only so much room for the sound to take up, and and each additional element cuts down on the amount of room all the elements have to coexist in. plus you can get odd overtone clashes, and also aliasing problems if you're rendering to a single stereo track then adding more on the top of that.

solshada · Post by **solshada** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:09 pm

Some good thoughts in this thread already..

For me acquiring the "warmth" has always been an issue of gain structure, especially with respect to compression and limiting.

In general I keep levels very very low when mixing / making the track and I use heavy amounts of compression (the sonalksis multiband comp is the absolute bombass). Once the track is done I then bring everything up using a waves L2 maximizer. Many people swear against the L2 and anything that ends in Izer really, but I've seen great results with it. I would hasten to say that paying for true mastering is always the best way to go as an L2 is destroying a lot of the dynamics of a track if it isn't mixed properly in the first place.

lilt · Post by **lilt** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:34 pm

thanks so much peeps!
this is the sort of conversation i was trying to start! (not just for my benefit, but to get peoples opinions on what *that* sound is)
especially xx xy, good shit!

i must say that ive got *my sound* down... i have very particular opinions on the music i like (love) and make

im thinking my real problem is lack of decent compression and not being able to monitor on a big system
all i have is some roland rh300 headphones, which are awesome for putting a track together, but getting *that* mix on them just isnt really happening

isnt it amazing though, how some tracks are just a sine bass and a drum loop but sound like they fill a good part of the universe

also i have realised i need some bigger melodies, currently im just working with 8 bar loops as everything i do is for a live (eg. loop triggering) situation

r · Post by r » Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:50 am

it's nothing technical i think. It's more because you know how you made the track. You listen to your track too transparant. You know everything, timing, soundcolour, etc. Others don't so theyll find the magic in your track much sooner then you do.

serox · Post by **serox** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:08 pm

R wrote:it's nothing technical i think. It's more because you know how you made the track. You listen to your track too transparant. You know everything, timing, soundcolour, etc. Others don't so theyll find the magic in your track much sooner then you do.

I keep telling myself that

corpsey · Post by **corpsey** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:56 pm

lilt wrote: isnt it amazing though, how some tracks are just a sine bass and a drum loop but sound like they fill a good part of the universe

Was thinking this the other night at DMZ, a lot of the best tunes are MAINLY bass and drums with a simple synth or two on top, there's obviously often a lot of detail on top of that foundation but it gets lost for the most part on a system like that.

futures_untold · Post by **futures_untold** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:44 pm

Feeling a live mix tear through you in a rave whilst on MDMA naturally sounds 'warmer' than a loop in your sequencer at home......!

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As mentioned above, big producers don't have any real super production secrets. They've simply taken the time to learn and master all the functions of their tools. Because they know how to use their tools correctly they get ceative.

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Some of the 'hits' & 'classics' we go on about aren't actually that good from a production perspective... Any tune played out regularly on big system will become endearing to people as they get used to hearing the track..... Just ask an advertising exec why they repeat the same advert over and over? They just want recognition in a saturated market!

Are you guys really telling me that the ear-pearcing FM resonance of 'Spongebob' played loudly is actually good? It's a fucking ugly sound imho, and not what I ever want to hear at a rave........

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As for people being played out or not, ask a few simple questions to get your answer.... Just how hard are you actually pushing yourself?

-Are you putting on your own nights with your mates?

-Are you sending radio & club DJ's free copies of your tracks?

-Are you sending promo's to labels, magazines and websites?

-Do you send press releases to the magazines & websites when you have a new EP?

-Do you have a myspace/youtube account for people to follow up on your music once they hear of your name?

-Are you advertising yourself to everyone you meet and know?

-Is your mum advertising you to everyone she meets and knows?

-Have you saved up $300 to have a small run of vinyl pressed to distribute to a carefully selected group of DJ's and journalists who are supportive of your sound?

People have their tunes played out because they work hard and use their connections wisely, not necessarily because their tunes are actually any good.......! (That applies to the whole music industry. One listen to the pop charts can confirm this... :S)

Rant over

sqwol · Post by **sqwol** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:31 pm

I would have to agree, most artists suck at the buiness side. You need to put out equal if not greater effort on exposure. That is unless you are the shit.

osk · Post by **osk** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:20 pm

How can we answer that if we can't hear your shit?

dirtycash · Post by **dirtycash** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:02 am

my two cents..not a genuis, but it helps me..i think..

concentrate on getting a solid mix down without any effects..
mix down at low volume..
leave a good -3 db of headroom...

a mastering engineer cant do anything with something not mixed down right..im not talking about proper eq, or compression or reverb im talking about straight 'levels'

for example, if ya high hats are two high, the mastering cant fix that without compromising the rest of the track...

getting that sound

getting that sound

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