Mixdown - relative levels for parts

bitter · Post by **bitter** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:03 pm

Hi all, been lurking a while, time to get round to some posting

I did a rough mix of a tune I've been working on recently - sounded ok on the Yamaha monitors in my home studio - decent bass, clear treble, overall ok balance of sounds. Took it to a mate's at the weekend and on his Tapco's it sounded a whole pile of shiz. Really harsh upper-mids & treble and lots of things out of whack. A reference tune sounded fine, so obviously my shit mixdown...

It prompted me to do another mixdown, this time looking carefully at EQ and also at the levels of various parts on the mixer, and using those as a guide, rather than my ears. This one sounds more balanced and less busy and followed this guide:

loudest element - kick
~2db lower - snare
~4db lower - bass
~6db lower and below - synth lines, hats & other percussion, samples.

Does this seem right? I guess it depends on the track in question but are there any guides you use with regards to the levels of parts in relation to each other?

hugh · Post by **hugh** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:58 pm

chances are it's something to do with your eqing - loud snares can be very harsh on the ears if you don't equalise/filter them properly. just take a copy out on your mp3 and play it on as many different speakers and make very slight adjustments so that it sounds decent on anything it's played on whilst still heavy on a louder system.
*edit - another nice tip i picked up from a video interview with benga is to turn the volume way down so that you cannot hear the tops as loudly, and to bring forth and push back any elements that are muddying the mix.

serox · Post by **serox** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:52 pm

Get better monitors;)

bitter · Post by **bitter** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:59 pm

Hehe, was waiting for that one

Yeah its my usual thing to listen to a track on lots of different systems to get an idea but its not usually SO way out as this last one. Maybe I need some better ears.

So what is usually the loudest element in your tunes? Kick, bass or other?

daft cunt · Post by **daft cunt** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:19 pm

BITTER wrote:So what is usually the loudest element in your tunes? Kick, bass or other?

Kick & snare. Same loud.

two oh one · Post by **two oh one** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:25 pm

It differs from track to track and sound to sound. Nothing is 'right', because it depends on how you want to approach the track and then how compressed the relative parts are. It also depends on if you want something to blend in, or stick out. So many different ways to approach.

Once you compress something, it's going to sound louder despite peaking a lot lower.

Also: -6dB (@24 bit) for the loudest element, whatever you decide that is going to be. You don't want to peak any louder than that if you're going to screw around with 2bus dynamics and EQ. You need breathing space.

When you're in 24bit, you don't need everything to be as loud as a shocking number of people seem to think.

bitter · Post by **bitter** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:33 pm

I already keep the levels of the master out to peak at -6(ish) but 24-bit doesn't seem to get on well with my old G5 and logic 8.

two oh one · Post by **two oh one** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:04 pm

BITTER wrote:I already keep the levels of the master out to peak at -6(ish) but 24-bit doesn't seem to get on well with my old G5 and logic 8.

How many tracks are you running? Audio, or virtual instruments? I seem to get a nice count on my G5 (Dual 2.7) with Logic. 8gb ram and an internal HD devoted to audio might have something to do with it.

Maybe you can work in 16bit and re-adjust you peaks accordingly, but doesn't logic work internally at 24? Somebody said that converting down to 16 on the fly is actually slower than running natively in 24. Maybe it was a load of bollocks?

bitter · Post by **bitter** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:22 pm

two oh one wrote:How many tracks are you running? Audio, or virtual instruments? I seem to get a nice count on my G5 (Dual 2.7) with Logic. 8gb ram and an internal HD devoted to audio might have something to do with it.

Maybe you can work in 16bit and re-adjust you peaks accordingly, but doesn't logic work internally at 24? Somebody said that converting down to 16 on the fly is actually slower than running natively in 24. Maybe it was a load of bollocks?

Its an old single-core G5 imac, 1.8ghz, 2 megs of ram... I get 15 channels of audio, 5 or so virtual instruments and 5 or 6 effects plus compressors without to much problem so its not the end of the world. Not sure about the 24-bit thing though. Doesn't that depend on my soundcard? (Which is a Novation X-station btw)

bitter · Post by **bitter** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:32 pm

While we're at it, I've currently use a pair of Yamaha MSP 5's in the studio. Does anyone have any experience of these and if so how do they compare with similar-sized KRKs? If it ain't broke n all that...

Thankx

matthew_ · Post by **matthew_** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:50 pm

KRKs are the shizz, cant comment on the yam's though, sorry.

james fox · Post by **james fox** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:09 pm

i'm running the krk rp6 and i liek them a lot, but any monitors are fine - you just need time to get used to them.

use your ears for the leveling, apart from when you are setting the level of the kick as it helps to mix around that as a reference point.

i mix in this order: drums, bass, vox, leads, pads, fx. get the kick drum peaking at -6db, bring in the rest of the drums around it (snare then hats then percs) and make sure they are balanced. then i mute all the drums apart from the kick and bring the bass in, spend a while making sure the balance is right as this is crucial. HP filter the low frequencies out of the rest of the drums and then bring them back in, voila you have the bare bones of a good mix.

matthew_ · Post by **matthew_** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:15 pm

This is mostly what I aim to do, but its never simple, and it takes a bit of minor tweaking, the main thing is to solo and mute things and check the relativity between the different parts, make sure that the changes and drops sound ok too and that no silly volume changes occur during the transition of parts of the track. Get a decent compressor and be careful with it, try sidechaining you bassline(s) with the kick and any other conflicting items, this can help drive the groove too - giving that pumping effect. Read a load of mixdown tutorials, even if they arent on dubstep, or even dance music, it's all relative and the penny will drop eventually.

Saying that, that's just advice, I'm rarely happy with my mixes, but I think I am struggling with crappy monitors and having to use headphones at night.

x

setspeed · Post by **setspeed** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:25 pm

BITTER wrote:While we're at it, I've currently use a pair of Yamaha MSP 5's in the studio. Does anyone have any experience of these and if so how do they compare with similar-sized KRKs? If it ain't broke n all that...

Thankx

i've used MSP5's. they're pretty harsh! lots of upper mids and treble; i don't really like listening to them. they are good though, and accurate: with practise you can get some really good mixdowns out of them... i know a couple of breaks producers who use them. they're good but you do have to learn them, and the room (as with any speaker really tho)

bitter · Post by **bitter** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:12 pm

Thanx ppl, yeah I guess I need to learn 'em proper, but will persevere and hang on to them for now rather than splashing some cash on new monitors.

Since the first post I've gone back and worked on the mixdown - re-set the levels, made the sidechain more effective and done a lot of subtractive EQ'ing and its starting to sound a little more respectable across the different systems I'm testing it on.... practise, practise, practise

Mixdown - relative levels for parts

Mixdown - relative levels for parts

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