Dubstep And Criticism

[ramadanman]

http://www.dogsonacid.com/showthread.ph ... 8&cache=56

Interesting reading...i think he has a point.

A severe lack of criticism in the dubstep scene

I am speaking as a dubstep dj / producer ( years into it ) and promoter ( hold the only dubstep monthly in my city )... as an " insider ", so to speak.

Let's try to turn this thread into a constructive conversation about the problematic relationship between dubstep and criticism !

It seems there's some kind of unwritten rule on dubstep forums - this unwritten rule is more often than not applied in the real world - : dubstep cannot be criticized ; a dubstep track ( since it is not drum and bass ? since it is so forward and revolutionnary ? ) is by default a good track.

If you don't think so it's simply because you haven't evolved to the next stage of musical consciousness and don't quite understand dubstep : therefore, 1. your judgement is invalid, 2. You're a wasteman.

Praise is automatically given to tracks produced by well known and not-so-well known producers ( Skream, DMZ, Distance, Pinch, Boxcutter, M.R.K. 1, Loefah, D1, Coki, etc... as if they could not produce bad tracks. How many times have you heard or read : " This DMZ / Skream track is shit ! " ? ) to the point where dubsteppers don't need to open their mouths for you to know what they think. This lack of criticism, this " forced positivity " to me is problematic. It seems to me that a lot of dubsteppers, who will not tolerate honest criticism, are blurring the lines between the good, the bad and the ugly, in order to make the ugly and the bad " look good ".

[ Criticism will be directed outwards, towards " less-evolved ", low-brow forms of music, such as drum and bass. ]

Listen carefully to whatever is in the dubstep section of redeye records or BM Soho, and you will agree that within dubstep there are bad tunes - and also REALLY bad ones. What's wrong with saying that there are shit, boring tunes in dubstep ? Dubstep cannot always be " sublime ". I don't care if some dubstep tracks are meant to be " spiritual " or " more intelligent " than tracks from more " dumb " dance music genres, if they are shit and if they bore me I see no reason for me not to say it. But it's as if one could not utter a single word against these particular tracks. Dubstep heads ( as they often interpret criticism of a piece as an attack on dubstep as a whole ) will immediately gang up on whoever has not been crushed under the pressure to say what the others say and dares criticize a piece. On the contrary, these tracks will be over-hyped by zealous dubsteppers, even more so if they are the doing of a well-known producer... at the end of the day, we end up with tons of track reviews which make them appear better than they really are. To me, this kind of criticism is the " death " of criticism.


I want your opinions please.

Have you noticed this lack of criticism ?

What do you make of dubstep coverage in the press ?

[pete_bubonic]

That thread is long and there's been one like it every week for months now. I always type some shit for them, but trust me people this one ain't worth reading.

[spaceboy]

beg u please give us salient highlights...its so long to trawl thru this shit..

[ramadanman]

I think the very first post has a point

Yes a lot of the other posts are shit and display loads of ignorance, but i think it's a good question to raise.

[sek [espionage]]

There are pleanty of tunes and producers that I dislike for whatever reason.
...but expressing those thoughts on a public message board does what exactly?

[spaceboy]

i never hold back

[duck]

I quite enjoyed the irony of the thread bigging up Dub, whilst claiming dubstep is too slow to dance to....

heh heh

[paulie]

A severe lack of criticism in the dubstep scene

I am speaking as a dubstep dj / producer ( years into it ) and promoter ( hold the only dubstep monthly in my city )... as an " insider ", so to speak.

Let's try to turn this thread into a constructive conversation about the problematic relationship between dubstep and criticism !

It seems there's some kind of unwritten rule on dubstep forums - this unwritten rule is more often than not applied in the real world - : dubstep cannot be criticized ; a dubstep track ( since it is not drum and bass ? since it is so forward and revolutionnary ? ) is by default a good track.

If you don't think so it's simply because you haven't evolved to the next stage of musical consciousness and don't quite understand dubstep : therefore, 1. your judgement is invalid, 2. You're a wasteman.

Praise is automatically given to tracks produced by well known and not-so-well known producers ( Skream, DMZ, Distance, Pinch, Boxcutter, M.R.K. 1, Loefah, D1, Coki, etc... as if they could not produce bad tracks. How many times have you heard or read : " This DMZ / Skream track is shit ! " ? ) to the point where dubsteppers don't need to open their mouths for you to know what they think. This lack of criticism, this " forced positivity " to me is problematic. It seems to me that a lot of dubsteppers, who will not tolerate honest criticism, are blurring the lines between the good, the bad and the ugly, in order to make the ugly and the bad " look good ".

[ Criticism will be directed outwards, towards " less-evolved ", low-brow forms of music, such as drum and bass. ]

Listen carefully to whatever is in the dubstep section of redeye records or BM Soho, and you will agree that within dubstep there are bad tunes - and also REALLY bad ones. What's wrong with saying that there are shit, boring tunes in dubstep ? Dubstep cannot always be " sublime ". I don't care if some dubstep tracks are meant to be " spiritual " or " more intelligent " than tracks from more " dumb " dance music genres, if they are shit and if they bore me I see no reason for me not to say it. But it's as if one could not utter a single word against these particular tracks. Dubstep heads ( as they often interpret criticism of a piece as an attack on dubstep as a whole ) will immediately gang up on whoever has not been crushed under the pressure to say what the others say and dares criticize a piece. On the contrary, these tracks will be over-hyped by zealous dubsteppers, even more so if they are the doing of a well-known producer... at the end of the day, we end up with tons of track reviews which make them appear better than they really are. To me, this kind of criticism is the " death " of criticism.


I want your opinions please.

Have you noticed this lack of criticism ?

What do you make of dubstep coverage in the press ?

This is true, there is a lot of boring music out there, but i'm not naming names!!

[doomstep]

Interesting reading...i think he has a point.

if he thought he had a point, why'd he post it on DOA?

There are pleanty of tunes and producers that I dislike for whatever reason.
...but expressing those thoughts on a public message board does what exactly?

big up man, thats it exactly, its called respect,

If you dont like it, then obviouslly is wasnt made for you . . .

[dj $hy]

I am as honest as I can be.

When ppl send me tracks they know if I like them cos I'll play them on our shows. I will give constructive comments too.

Its important to be honest. How can you be true to a scene if your looking at it from up someones arse!

[spaceboy]

A severe lack of criticism in the dubstep scene

I am speaking as a dubstep dj / producer ( years into it ) and promoter ( hold the only dubstep monthly in my city )... as an " insider ", so to speak.

Let's try to turn this thread into a constructive conversation about the problematic relationship between dubstep and criticism !

It seems there's some kind of unwritten rule on dubstep forums - this unwritten rule is more often than not applied in the real world - : dubstep cannot be criticized ; a dubstep track ( since it is not drum and bass ? since it is so forward and revolutionnary ? ) is by default a good track.

If you don't think so it's simply because you haven't evolved to the next stage of musical consciousness and don't quite understand dubstep : therefore, 1. your judgement is invalid, 2. You're a wasteman.

Praise is automatically given to tracks produced by well known and not-so-well known producers ( Skream, DMZ, Distance, Pinch, Boxcutter, M.R.K. 1, Loefah, D1, Coki, etc... as if they could not produce bad tracks. How many times have you heard or read : " This DMZ / Skream track is shit ! " ? ) to the point where dubsteppers don't need to open their mouths for you to know what they think. This lack of criticism, this " forced positivity " to me is problematic. It seems to me that a lot of dubsteppers, who will not tolerate honest criticism, are blurring the lines between the good, the bad and the ugly, in order to make the ugly and the bad " look good ".

[ Criticism will be directed outwards, towards " less-evolved ", low-brow forms of music, such as drum and bass. ]

Listen carefully to whatever is in the dubstep section of redeye records or BM Soho, and you will agree that within dubstep there are bad tunes - and also REALLY bad ones. What's wrong with saying that there are shit, boring tunes in dubstep ? Dubstep cannot always be " sublime ". I don't care if some dubstep tracks are meant to be " spiritual " or " more intelligent " than tracks from more " dumb " dance music genres, if they are shit and if they bore me I see no reason for me not to say it. But it's as if one could not utter a single word against these particular tracks. Dubstep heads ( as they often interpret criticism of a piece as an attack on dubstep as a whole ) will immediately gang up on whoever has not been crushed under the pressure to say what the others say and dares criticize a piece. On the contrary, these tracks will be over-hyped by zealous dubsteppers, even more so if they are the doing of a well-known producer... at the end of the day, we end up with tons of track reviews which make them appear better than they really are. To me, this kind of criticism is the " death " of criticism.


I want your opinions please.

Have you noticed this lack of criticism ?

What do you make of dubstep coverage in the press ?

This is true, there is a lot of boring music out there, but i'm not naming names!!

go on, I dare ya

[smudge]

Although this is an interesting point I'm still a little confused.

So what the DOA forum are saying is that if Pendulum produced a tune that the drum and bass community wasn't into, then they would go on the DOA forum and post a thread telling everyone how shit they thought it was?

I think there are good and bad tunes in every scene but you blantantly don't go onto a forum and write a long post about how a track's drums don't groove, I hate your one note bassline and you haven't got any music in your track apart from one chord pad. Your track is shit mate!

I don't get it. Am I being dumb?

[paulie]

I actually think more hating would be a good thing.

[micky]

A severe lack of criticism in the dubstep scene

I am speaking as a dubstep dj / producer ( years into it ) and promoter ( hold the only dubstep monthly in my city )... as an " insider ", so to speak.

Let's try to turn this thread into a constructive conversation about the problematic relationship between dubstep and criticism !

It seems there's some kind of unwritten rule on dubstep forums - this unwritten rule is more often than not applied in the real world - : dubstep cannot be criticized ; a dubstep track ( since it is not drum and bass ? since it is so forward and revolutionnary ? ) is by default a good track.

If you don't think so it's simply because you haven't evolved to the next stage of musical consciousness and don't quite understand dubstep : therefore, 1. your judgement is invalid, 2. You're a wasteman.

Praise is automatically given to tracks produced by well known and not-so-well known producers ( Skream, DMZ, Distance, Pinch, Boxcutter, M.R.K. 1, Loefah, D1, Coki, etc... as if they could not produce bad tracks. How many times have you heard or read : " This DMZ / Skream track is shit ! " ? ) to the point where dubsteppers don't need to open their mouths for you to know what they think. This lack of criticism, this " forced positivity " to me is problematic. It seems to me that a lot of dubsteppers, who will not tolerate honest criticism, are blurring the lines between the good, the bad and the ugly, in order to make the ugly and the bad " look good ".

[ Criticism will be directed outwards, towards " less-evolved ", low-brow forms of music, such as drum and bass. ]

Listen carefully to whatever is in the dubstep section of redeye records or BM Soho, and you will agree that within dubstep there are bad tunes - and also REALLY bad ones. What's wrong with saying that there are shit, boring tunes in dubstep ? Dubstep cannot always be " sublime ". I don't care if some dubstep tracks are meant to be " spiritual " or " more intelligent " than tracks from more " dumb " dance music genres, if they are shit and if they bore me I see no reason for me not to say it. But it's as if one could not utter a single word against these particular tracks. Dubstep heads ( as they often interpret criticism of a piece as an attack on dubstep as a whole ) will immediately gang up on whoever has not been crushed under the pressure to say what the others say and dares criticize a piece. On the contrary, these tracks will be over-hyped by zealous dubsteppers, even more so if they are the doing of a well-known producer... at the end of the day, we end up with tons of track reviews which make them appear better than they really are. To me, this kind of criticism is the " death " of criticism.


I want your opinions please.

Have you noticed this lack of criticism ?

What do you make of dubstep coverage in the press ?

This is true, there is a lot of boring music out there, but i'm not naming names!!

I suppose that confirms the point of this thread then.

[doomstep]

I actually think more hating would be a good thing.

yh, dubstep isn't nearly emo enuff, perhaps all the lads could start wearing mascara as well, and we could all paint our nails black.

[paulie]

This is true, there is a lot of boring music out there, but i'm not naming names!!

I suppose that confirms the point of this thread then.

Exactly.

[poax]

L
O
N
G

[sek [espionage]]

In a time before the internet, this topic really wouldn’t be an issue.
It’s a given (and natural) that people express negative opinions openly face to face.

However, I’m lost on what benefits there are in having people post generic “producer x sucks” or “label y is shit” opinions on a message board.

People have every right to express whatever they think or feel, but let’s get realistic. Most people who do so in an In an environment such as this do little or nothing to enforce their view point intelligently.

Having said that, I think trance music fucking sucks. The internet is okaaaaay but can really fix up in certain areas.

[crazydave]

I agree with doomstep, it's about respect - not about yesmen, arselickers or having blinkers on.


Hating on music is necessary, to allow some sort of quality control, but most people are smart enough
to see that blowing steam on a messageboard achieves nothing but 1) piss everyone off, and 2) create a
bad atmosphere. Just go to some American Hip Hop forums if you want to see an example of that.


Heads on this board (/Dissensus) have got into some really good discussions about the scene as a whole-
including plenty of constructive criticism and decent thought. But unless specific artists are asking for advice
(which is unlikely), what do you do about bad records?

Simple: don't buy 'em.


CD

[andythetwig]

So what the DOA forum are saying is that if Pendulum produced a tune that the drum and bass community wasn't into, then they would go on the DOA forum and post a thread telling everyone how shit they thought it was?

yes, you remember what happened when "fasten your seatbelt" came out?