Dubstep And Criticism

[necta selecta]

mos dan wrote

he just seemed to be exhibiting a greater interest in theory than in the music itself in his comments

I find the majority of music journalists (in uk at least) seem to do this all the time which i why i hate them i think. They just want to sound clever rather than descibe the music.

Boomnoise, you touched on this when i met you at forward the other week (sat with appleblim)

btw, I got about 4 lines into reading that wire article and had to put it down cuz i couldn't cope with all the bullsh1t.

[seckle]

Surely if a tune is shit it won't get played out and it won't get bought?

agreed. when you write things down on a forum, whether it's positive or negative, in effect, you're broadcasting that opinion to the planet. google and all the search engines pick up your comments too. therefore, a journalist or a magazine searching producer x out on the net, see's the negative comments too, and these comments can be easily taken out of context and have impact on a persons reputation. this is why i think the forum and critique is a very very tricky business. i'd keep it private and more formal.

[shonky]

Ok, so just out of interest then, is there actually ANYONE on this forum who doesn't like or has even some minor critisism about any of the following:

Request line, Blipstream, Conference, Earth a run red, Horroshow, Ruffage, Star wars (/ Hatcha dub) , that new coki one with the singing, 9 samurai, pop pop, lion v.i.p, angels or punisher ?

Tell me why (either here or in a p.m. if you think it's counter productive to post it.)

I got into the old garage sound, and then ran into Ghost, Shelf-life and Tempa as the more interesting end of the sound. Don't really read music mags or go clubbing that often (and that's usually chosen more by who's going rather than what's playing, although it's still important to have good music) so most of what I find out about dubstep wise is through this forum.

Out of the thirteen tunes mentioned, 3 I've never heard (although I've heard of them), six I bought and play often, 1 I liked but missed and 3 are ridiculously over-rated but massively popular. And no, I'm not saying which ones.

There's a lot of stuff that comes out that I feel is unimaginative, dubstep-by-numbers, but then I don't buy it and I don't see the point in dissing it if others are really into it, although I do feel a bit of bemusement at gushing praise for tracks that just leave me cold.

Mind you, if its any indicator as to what I think of the scene at the moment, I've mostly been trying to hunt down old El-b and garage tracks on e-bay and hardly bought any current dubstep lately. Not saying that it won't change or improve, but a lot of releases aren't that inspiring to me at the moment.

It'd be nice to see to see more innovators like Geiom coming through, or more variety on show like the DMZ soul jazz singles - I get the feeling that some "names" are operating on auto-pilot at the moment, but then it might just be popular tastes differ to mine.

[nedbeauman]

therefore, a journalist or a magazine searching producer x out on the net, see's the negative comments too, and these comments can be easily taken out of context and have impact on a persons reputation.

Do you really think a journalist will have his or her opinion swayed by a random, probably incoherent forum post he or she turns up after a Google search?

[zap pow]

you can't grow without critisism.
the whole idea of evolution is based on knowing what doesn't work.

I'm not entirely convinced badmouthing people on a forum is a path to pushing things forward.

Surely if a tune is shit it won't get played out and it won't get bought?

Nobody is suggesting that a slew of "[producer/record] is a pile of shit" threads will help. Criticism can be more complex and generalised than that, yes?

As a relative newbie I think there is a stifling paranoia here, which seems to stem from a bizarre idea that everyone has to put on a relentlessly cheery positive front - because if they don't the whole scene will crumble.

I mean - it's as if the entire dubstep genre will fall to bits if a journalist happens to read the odd negative comment here or something!

Do people actually believe in this music and the strength of its scene, or not? Is it something with some life in it, which is going places, or is it some kind of fragile flower which has to be defended 24 hours a day in case it falls over in the wind?

[ramadanman]

hi Zap

nice post - i agree with some of your thoughts as well

i suppose most people here have seen the decline of various other scenes - and understandably, they don't want to see the same thing happen to dubstep, i think myself included. in one sense it's a catch 22 situation. if you are over protective, you can get the "stifling paranoia" as you call it, but on the other hand, if you are not too careful, quality control goes out the window and the scene as a whole will decline. obvioulsy these are two extremes, and we aren't in either sitatuion at the moment. anyway...talking too much about music is never the best thing. lets just keep up with the quality tunes coming out, and the wicked dances.

[metalboxproducts]

Ok, so just out of interest then, is there actually ANYONE on this forum who doesn't like or has even some minor critisism about any of the following:

Request line, Blipstream, Conference, Earth a run red, Horroshow, Ruffage, Star wars (/ Hatcha dub) , that new coki one with the singing, 9 samurai, pop pop, lion v.i.p, angels or punisher ?

Tell me why (either here or in a p.m. if you think it's counter productive to post it.)

I got into the old garage sound, and then ran into Ghost, Shelf-life and Tempa as the more interesting end of the sound. Don't really read music mags or go clubbing that often (and that's usually chosen more by who's going rather than what's playing, although it's still important to have good music) so most of what I find out about dubstep wise is through this forum.

Out of the thirteen tunes mentioned, 3 I've never heard (although I've heard of them), six I bought and play often, 1 I liked but missed and 3 are ridiculously over-rated but massively popular. And no, I'm not saying which ones.

There's a lot of stuff that comes out that I feel is unimaginative, dubstep-by-numbers, but then I don't buy it and I don't see the point in dissing it if others are really into it, although I do feel a bit of bemusement at gushing praise for tracks that just leave me cold.

Mind you, if its any indicator as to what I think of the scene at the moment, I've mostly been trying to hunt down old El-b and garage tracks on e-bay and hardly bought any current dubstep lately. Not saying that it won't change or improve, but a lot of releases aren't that inspiring to me at the moment.

It'd be nice to see to see more innovators like Geiom coming through, or more variety on show like the DMZ soul jazz singles - I get the feeling that some "names" are operating on auto-pilot at the moment, but then it might just be popular tastes differ to mine.

You should have named names ya bitch.

I'v given someone honest and constructive feedback when they asked for it. There responce was to resort to personal insults rather then take it as a producer and use the advice to inprove there track.
As a producer who post tracks on here i expect honest feedback. I do not take it personely if someone doesn't like what they hear. Even if someone say's it's complete monkey shit it really does'nt bother me. I'm confident with the tune which is why ive posted it in the first place. Having said that, any feed back i recieve is usuelly of the critical type ie constructive, not ass liking or slating without any point.

So what if some one is negetive without a proper critical analyses. Its only oppinion. Everybody has a differant one. Two people may like some thing for completely differnet reasons.

[seckle]

therefore, a journalist or a magazine searching producer x out on the net, see's the negative comments too, and these comments can be easily taken out of context and have impact on a persons reputation.

Do you really think a journalist will have his or her opinion swayed by a random, probably incoherent forum post he or she turns up after a Google search?

have you read some of the so-called journalists in UK electronica related magazines? it's appaling. 3/4 of them talk out their ass about "the underground". their "background" info on a given article is usually taken from blogs and/or forums. US electronica journalists are even worse.

[paulie]

therefore, a journalist or a magazine searching producer x out on the net, see's the negative comments too, and these comments can be easily taken out of context and have impact on a persons reputation.

Do you really think a journalist will have his or her opinion swayed by a random, probably incoherent forum post he or she turns up after a Google search?

have you read some of the so-called journalists in UK electronica related magazines? it's appaling. 3/4 of them talk out their ass about "the underground". their "background" info on a given article is usually taken from blogs and/or forums. US electronica journalists are even worse.

LMAO @ "journalists". Pretty much across the board, but especially in music.

In music it's pretty much a case of: Those that can, do. Those that can't, pontificate cluelessly about it in magazines and on the web. Wastemen.

[mos dan]

so much journalism - especially about emerging or (ahem) 'underground' scenes - infuriates me for it's innacuracy or lazy 'angles' on something that is interesting in and of itself.

but this attitude that 'all journalism is rubbish' is as lazy and generalised as the articles by the journalists you criticise. if you think you're better than them then why are you stooping to their level?

[nedbeauman]

LMAO @ "journalists". Pretty much across the board, but especially in music.

In music it's pretty much a case of: Those that can, do. Those that can't, pontificate cluelessly about it in magazines and on the web. Wastemen.

So you like dubstep, but you'd rather there was no one around to publicise it? (Or since you don't like journalists 'across the board' I assume you'd also prefer that there was no one to cover wars, interview politicians, or tell you where to get a good curry?)

[mos dan]

amazing. the journalist defence league springs into action, lol.

safe though ned, nice to hear someone sticking up for us for once. i had this massive argument with my mate after the world cup after he told me 'media pressure' was to blame for us being crap at the world cup and also for us going out on penalties. i'm sorry, did sven and the team have nothing to do with it then? geesh.

[seckle]

LMAO @ "journalists". Pretty much across the board, but especially in music.

In music it's pretty much a case of: Those that can, do. Those that can't, pontificate cluelessly about it in magazines and on the web. Wastemen.

So you like dubstep, but you'd rather there was no one around to publicise it? (Or since you don't like journalists 'across the board' I assume you'd also prefer that there was no one to cover wars, interview politicians, or tell you where to get a good curry?)

at the moment, there's been only a handful of journalists that've really criticised dubstep in published media. i'd actually like to see more of it, as long as the journalist decides to actually research what they're writing about, and not fall into boring generalizations. opinions are important, and critique doesn't necessarily have to be from someone with vast experience in electronica. most of the time, magazine journalists are trying to sound way too cool for school, and end up pontificating, rather than talking about the music.

[ramadanman]

Read 90% of the reviews for the Dizzee Rascal albums - complete shit, written by people who have no clue about what's going on - quoting the same line

"i am a problem for anthony blair"

really pissed me off.

[nedbeauman]

There are a lot of journalists out there who could be writing interesting, informed things about dubstep and grime, there just aren't enough forward-thinking outlets.

Incidentally, can we please get rid of this old chestnut that all music journalists want to be musicians? This could mean one of two things but no one ever bothers to make the distinction:

1. If a genie could instantly make you into a critically and commercially successful musician, 90% music journalists would probably go for it.

True - but then probably so would 90% of people who've ever bought a CD and 100% of people who've ever had to work a boring job.

2. 90% of music journalists have made a serious effort to make a living as a musician, but turned out not to be talented enough and so went into journalism as a 'second best'.

This is just a lie. At a guess it's more like 5% at the most.

[ufo over easy]

In music it's pretty much a case of: Those that can, do. Those that can't, pontificate cluelessly about it in magazines and on the web. Wastemen.

You're well ghetto paulie.

[thomas edison]

kinda true, people tend to critisize others without being realistic. I do it myself all the time

[mr. messer]

posted twice? below \/

[mr. messer]

u know what.

i didnt wanna write anythin here.

deleted cos this topic should get LOCKED

[joseph-j]

In music it's pretty much a case of: Those that can, do. Those that can't, pontificate cluelessly about it in magazines and on the web. Wastemen.

You're well ghetto paulie.

fuck offffff. i agree with him.

those blogger/trendy journo fuckers proper make my blood boil!!

Any publicity it good publicity though. No? Oh... ok.

<gets coat>