the arguing for the sake of arguing thread

[badger]

If your going to argue equal rights it should be for everyone. The moment you start talking about gay rights, black right, womens right etc then the whole issue gets confused. However, the feminist movement has its roots in a very good cause and its more than understandable that it came about.

i totally agree. what i'm talking about is militant branches of movements such as feminism

as you said equal right should be for anyone, so how is it fair that a presidential candidate doesn't get voted in purely on the basis that he's a man? it disgusts me tbh

[oddfellow]

as you said equal right should be for anyone, so how is it fair that a presidential candidate doesn't get voted in purely on the basis that he's a man? it disgusts me tbh

Its what happens when people are made to vote for personalities and individuals rather than a party or ideas. Its the same over here as well. The trick is to look really closely and realise that they are all a bunch of bell-ends.

[pdomino]

I find women love to get shit off their chest or argue to let go of stress though they dont know or care they are doing it.... get to the fuckin gym

people tend to remember what works best from when they're younger in relationships as an adult...

If in their family dynamic they ended up being manipulative to get what they want then they will do this for the rest of their life...

A lot of girls I'm afraid to say (it's not their fault) are treated like pets more than children by their dads and end up being indulged too much....when they grow up they tend to be stnuc...

but i know plenty of girls not like that...it's just more common I'd say for a daughter to be spoiled in that way than a son...the son will receive too much discipline if anything providing the father is around...daughters tend to get away with more hence upon growing up they drive us loopy

sorry was this meant to be a bitch about women thread?

lol

what happens if a girl is ignored by her dad?

She will look to replace / find security or some other fatherly type figure *older men*
..... thats way too sensible of an answer

[ikarai]

as you said equal right should be for anyone, so how is it fair that a presidential candidate doesn't get voted in purely on the basis that he's a man? it disgusts me tbh

Its what happens when people are made to vote for personalities and individuals rather than a party or ideas. Its the same over here as well. The trick is to look really closely and realise that they are all a bunch of bell-ends.

hehe. yeah. you'd have to be an egotistical fucker to ever think you were worthy and capable of running a country. But unfortunately we need egotistical, and capable, people who are perpared to lead. Personality is irrelevant, but in this celebrity culture it entirely obscures policy and any proper substance.

this whole gender thing really pissed me off yesterday though, it's the ultimate in self-destructive behaviour. surely voting for the party which had the female candidate in the first place is more likely to engender a climate in which it could happen again, with better results? but no, let's all vote for the party which (in theory) is idealistically opposed to us. brilliant logic.

[bellybelle]

you gentlemen have made me so angry.

the fact that you don't seem to understand that gender discrimination is equal to racial or religious discrimination is just ridiculous.

and you don't want to talk about it. you wanna sit around your campfire talking with each other about the silly womenfolk, dismissing their legitimate concerns and not thinking that perhaps, just perhaps, this isn't always about you. taking things away from you.

Jesus. Sometimes we want to be just as oblivious as you are. Did you ever think that everything in your life tends to center from a male-dominated point of view? Perhaps you won't be able to see it because you're male--and you really have no clue what being a woman is like.

For men, their lives are defined by being men. For women, their lives are defined by being not-men.

So instead of just subtle misogyny, you just wanna go full out with it? Next thing you know you'll be telling black people to STFU when they want actual equality and telling Tibetan monks they're making a big deal over nothing.

Oh and when you wonder why more women aren't involved in dubstep, in terms of production and dj-ing, please look at the overtones in this thread and be quiet. What woman wants to be around a group of men who don't think what they are offended by or what they value is important? When you want to know why women don't feel comfortable being involved, come back to this. Then again, maybe just dismiss it in another way, like, "Women don't like it cuz women just don't like technical stuffs," or maybe, "Women would rather dance than create," or whatever else you have to tell yourself after your disregard for how they feel.

And using feminism as a bad word? Thats bullshit. Being a militant feminist seems to get confused around here with a woman speaking her mind and have a brain and making her own opinions. So whats a non-militant feminist? The one who only complain about what......wanting to work? So everything else that doesn't matter to you men moves a woman into the realm of militant feminism. Do you understand that you saying what you think should and should not be important to women is like white people telling me that how i'm immediately treated because of the stain of my skin is no big deal? That it doesn't exist and that to complain only makes me militant? Actually, by the logic applied to women, thats it exactly.

Stay as equal as required as long as you keep your place and remember no matter what that a man will be the center of your universe, whether you are one or not. Thats not equality. Thats bullshit lipservice.

And I guess I'm a militant feminist as well as a racial separatist from just wanting to have real equality--not just that bullshit that looks good on campaign slogans and paper. I'm not talking about the equality of being able to vote. I'm talking about equality in terms of never having my race or my gender influence how I live my life. I'd like a hand at being neutral at this point. I'm tired of having my life defined by not being white or not being a man.

So fuck yeah I guess I am a militant feminist because I want the same freedom in my life as a man does. I want the same opportunities. When I'm concerned about something, I want it taken seriously. When I have a female-specific health issue, I want it to be treated. I'd like to be talked to as if I had reasoning capabilities above a child. I'd like the opportunity to be the baseline and for men to be the baseline. Not be the baseline and men be the exception, though, truthfully, I think you will never understand what it is like to be a woman until you are cognizant that living as a man is only defined in relation to not being a woman.

Again, kudos to you guys for assuring more women don't wanna be involved with the Scene. Are you proud of yourselves? You wanna talk about women not looking at the big picture? You kinda just pissed all over the bigger picture here, haven't you?

[kins83]

I think you are all wrong.

[badger]

the fact that you don't seem to understand that gender discrimination is equal to racial or religious discrimination is just ridiculous.

did anyone actually say or imply that? i know i didn't

where the hell did that rant come from anyway? from people being annoyed at people discriminating at someone because they're a man and therefore not voting for them purely for that reason? there's a lot equality in that isn't there...

I want the same freedom in my life as a man does. I want the same opportunities.

I'd like the opportunity to be the baseline and for men to be the baseline.

couldn't agree more with that

[elbe]

I think you are all wrong.

I think you are right

[oddfellow]

@bellybelle

Please don't think that I was having a go at women. I personally believe that all abuse based on human basics is wrong. But I also feel that by having these different groups it creates seperation between us. Especially where human rights are concerned.

[datura]

I can't believe this is still going.

[elbe]

I can't believe this is still going.

really?

[datura]

I can't believe this is still going.

really?

Yep. Funny how one badly titled thread apparently turns all women off getting involved in dubstep.

[badger]

I can't believe this is still going.

nor can i

everyone has agreed that any kind of inequality is wrong and yet still people are arguing. somehow saying that women who discriminate against a presidential candidate based on gender are wrong means that we are ourselves discriminating. work that one out

[bellybelle]

the fact that you don't seem to understand that gender discrimination is equal to racial or religious discrimination is just ridiculous.

did anyone actually say or imply that? i know i didn't

where the hell did that rant come from anyway? from people being annoyed at people discriminating at someone because they're a man and therefore not voting for them purely for that reason? there's a lot equality in that isn't there...

Do you think I'm stupid? Do you really not understand where the rant came from after reading the posts by some of my ninja brothers? How dare you assume to be litmus test for whats important to women? And dismissing what women want to do with respect to their vote is exactly what you did. If women feel they have to use their vote in order to get their concerns heeded and focused on, instead of dismissing them and reducing it to mere militant feminism, maybe you should look at WHAT IT IS in the society that is occurring to force women into a position they feel they must take.

Instead of actually looking at that tho, I read a bunch of guys miss that completely and go to the whole "Reverse discrimination" thing, which, after hearing that for years with respect to race, basically translates to:

"I want you to have equality. And even though I have been favored over you for 4589498673569 years/mos/days/etc.; I finally admit you are equal to myself. So please have equality--as long as it doesn't require me giving up my dominance, social, subtle, or otherwise."

And that shit doesn't work. Stop thinking of feminists as wanting to take things away from men. You men want us to think we're equal too? Maybe you should be a bit more willing to view us that way then.

Rant still stands. If you think you're painting a welcoming picture for female dubsteppers, please continue. And when your dubstep nights slowly devolve into a sausage party, well at least you're right. And thats what really matters, right?

[datura]

Stop thinking of feminists as wanting to take things away from men.

I'm sorry but that statement is preposterous and I will leave this as I don't think anything productive can come out of it.

[badger]

maybe i've got it wrong but what exactly are these voters actually trying to do? are they merely doing this because hilary isn't a candidate or are they just trying to show that women voters have power? because the latter is just pointless - clearly any woman has the power to vote so if a group got together then they can influence things - but so can any other social grouping. tbh if i'd read/seen the initial article i might be able to answer that myself

"I want you to have equality. And even though I have been favored over you for 4589498673569 years/mos/days/etc.; I finally admit you are equal to myself. So please have equality--as long as it doesn't require me giving up my dominance, social, subtle, or otherwise."

whilst this may be true (and as you say not being a woman myself i'm not going to be able to fully understand it), i don't see how people deliberately voting against obama is going to change any of that. all actions like that do is create an angry response from men - which negates the good work that feminists do. it just seems a bit silly to me

If you think you're painting a welcoming picture for female dubsteppers, please continue. And when your dubstep nights slowly devolve into a sausage party, well at least you're right. And thats what really matters, right?

no offense but i don't think all female dubsteppers consult the hideout when wondering whether to go out or not

[ikarai]

Bellybelle, I hope you don't think I was trying to attack women, or feminism, with my question earlier. In fact it was quite the opposite, I was hoping you and some of the other women on here would have some interesting perspectives on what i was talking about. If you read my post, i didn't mention militant feminism at all: i am angered by militant standpoints altogether.

I'm no mysogynist: i resent the implication. It was a genuine attempt to turn this thread around from something totaly negative and shit to an interesting and meaningful discussion. something which is so lamented around here. I was interested in hearing your opinion as a self-confessed militant feminist; what do you think about the reversal of the opinion polls between Obama and McCain? Do you not think that this does the femanist cause a disservice by trivialising politics?

C'mon now not everyone on here is as dismissive as you think. I don't think you are overeacting, or unjustified, but perhaps your rancour is a little misplaced. You are right: i can't imagine life as a margianalised minority. But that doesn't mean I can't understand it. Anyway my attempt to generate something good from this has failed, and i'm sorry it continued. probably should have started a seperate thread for it i suppose.

[badger]

that's probably much better worded than i could have done but that's pretty much exactly what i was trying to say

[nousd]

And when your dubstep nights slowly devolve into a sausage party, well at least you're right. And thats what really matters, right?

But that is largely how they were not long ago Belle. Very straight-forward it was. Could concentrate on the sound and dance without regard to gentlemanliness or protecting a diminutive lady.
Quite appreciated the few female humans who could operate within that milieu because, it seemed, they couldn't give a fuck for anything but the shared enjoyment. I read them as uninhibited individuals.
Presumably seperatist-feminist steppas will have long initiated girls-only nights and good for them...whatever makes you comfortable and able to drop pretences or defences.

[dubstepjustin]

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